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gruull T_T 1 month of try not down yet..

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gruull T_T 1 month of try not down yet..

Postby ferrus » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

i am a bit unpleasant

one month of try for gruul. Last night i have attemped gruul as MT
6 wipes and disband...
We have bring him to the 16th growl, but at that time i take hits for 12k..O.o!
No problem with shatter and reverberation is easy to manage this things
after one month of try ..:(

i have 15k of armor, buffed 17k of healt and 19% dodge 18% parry 50% block with holy shield 512 defence

Holy shield was up every time. Our druid tank takes hit for 6 to 7k on growl 15-16 i take at that time 12-15k of damage ...O.o

how can i engage and win this boss?

even at growl 12th i have many probler, too much damage,,even a crush (unluck) of 17.700 damage O.o! ..is not this encounter designet for a paladin tank?
are my stats too low?
i miss something?

thanks for all the help provided.
an in progress tankadin ^^
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Postby anariana » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:18 am

There is a limit to how many growths a tank can take. I'd say that you should look into how the group's dps could be improved so you can bring him down faster.
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Postby Candiru » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:19 am

Gruul should be dead by 16 growths.

DPS are slacking.
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Re: gruull T_T 1 month of try not down yet..

Postby Baelor » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:51 am

ferrus wrote:i am a bit unpleasant

one month of try for gruul. Last night i have attemped gruul as MT
6 wipes and disband...
We have bring him to the 16th growl, but at that time i take hits for 12k..O.o!
No problem with shatter and reverberation is easy to manage this things
after one month of try ..:(

i have 15k of armor, buffed 17k of healt and 19% dodge 18% parry 50% block with holy shield 512 defence

Holy shield was up every time. Our druid tank takes hit for 6 to 7k on growl 15-16 i take at that time 12-15k of damage ...O.o

how can i engage and win this boss?

even at growl 12th i have many probler, too much damage,,even a crush (unluck) of 17.700 damage O.o! ..is not this encounter designet for a paladin tank?
are my stats too low?
i miss something?

thanks for all the help provided.

Gruul is both a raid boss that paladins excel at and are at a disadvantage against. They excel because they can set a higher threat ceiling for the melee DPS if the off-tank can keep up and keep taking the Hateful Strikes. However, they are at a disadvantage vs Gruul in that Gruul can start to hit for very large spikes, and the paladin has the lowest base HP pool of all 3 tanks - bears, prot warriors, and prot paladins. So, unless your healers are amazing, you've got top-of-the-line gear, you're extremely diligent with your Holy Shield, and your DPS is ahead of the curve, Gruul is noticeably more difficult with a paladin tank.

That said, it's not impossible and certainly achievable. It's just more of a pain than some bosses.
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Postby Eliane » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:08 am

Candiru wrote:Gruul should be dead by 16 growths.

DPS are slacking.


I totally agree. Your DPS'ers need to improve.

I got my first try at MT'ing him myself last week (I hadn't asked for it since our MT does a splendid job) and he died at growth 12.
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Postby ferrus » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:10 am

bealor thanks for the advice
and tanks to all

It was sad to die in growl 12...with 10k damage spike..
i have 17k buffed and 18k healt with battle shout in one try...

probably i must work hard in kara for the chest and t4 shoulder in gruul lair.
But i have socketed all the eq with star of elune, work hard with avoidance...and die in this manner is..discouraging
an in progress tankadin ^^
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Postby Questioner » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:20 am

It isn't your fault.

He should be in the "burn him down!" phase by growth 12.
<3 Tankadin at Heart.

Not necessarily accurate: Armory
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Re: gruull T_T 1 month of try not down yet..

Postby Tresjynn » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:01 am

ferrus wrote:19% dodge 18% parry 50% block with holy shield 512 defence

even a crush (unluck) of 17.700 damage O.o!

Any way you could bump up your mitigation a bit more? Those numbers add up to just a little past 98% total mitigation when you should be at or past 102.4%. And, especially on Gruul, a single (albeit rare) crush can wreck things up real quick.
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Postby Phaex » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:15 am

Oh my god.. i hate it when people talk nonsense like that.
So your druid is basicly trying to tell you, that he takes half of the damage you take ?

Lets take a quick look in the math here:

- A Druid quickly reaches the armor cap, so he has as 75% reduction.
- A Paladin and Warrior get about 60ish% from armor at that time of progress. You get another 6% from your selfbuff. And maybe another 4% from a Stoneshield Potion. So you are roughly at a 70% reduction.

Lets say Gruul hits you for 12k damage at whatever growth. So thats a 40k prearmor hit. So your Druid friend will be hit for 10k, no less.
Considering the high crushing vulnerablity Druids have, you see that its like the worst idea ever to let a Druid MT him.
Hurtfuls can't crit or crush, and druids have a quite good offtank tps. They are like the first choice for offtanking him.

Sadly but true. Paladins suck at maintanking gruul, warriors do a significantly better job here, due to shieldwall, last stand and more hp.
Last edited by Phaex on Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gruull T_T 1 month of try not down yet..

Postby ferrus » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:16 am

Tresjynn wrote:
ferrus wrote:19% dodge 18% parry 50% block with holy shield 512 defence

even a crush (unluck) of 17.700 damage O.o!

Any way you could bump up your mitigation a bit more? Those numbers add up to just a little past 98% total mitigation when you should be at or past 102.4%. And, especially on Gruul, a single (albeit rare) crush can wreck things up real quick.


i know this...
i am aiming at the legs of curator and t4 shoulder this can help a lot.
After this i'll work on chest and shield (nightbane drops)
devilshark backs is useful and i use this one but i have a problem of stam so i want to replace it.
I have the T4 Helm ..useful but probably offer not too much mitigation..

another question for wortly paladin..
i have about 700tps for all the combat. can be bumped up?
i have about 300 spelldamage buffed not enought?

thanks again ^^
an in progress tankadin ^^
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Postby Strom » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:35 am

My guild has only attempted him 2 nights now (total of 7-8 attempts?) and our best was 19% just as he hit growth 12 and then killed me. what I am seeing is that the 3 healers I had assigned to me are having trouble getting to me in time. I drag Gruul back to the middle after the shatter and then they have to move away from other people because of the shatter and then get back within range of me.... all while he is hitting me for like 8K. So if only 1 of the healers get to me in time... its not enough. That is our issue.

To try and fix this I plan to put 4 healers on myself and have them spread out around me. Hopefully at least 2 can get to me fast enough after growth 12 to make a difference. I hope info is good for you as well.

BTW, Phaex is correct..... druids make great OTs here, but no so good MTs. If he says he is taking half your damage then he is lying......
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Postby Kvaern » Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:48 am

Strom wrote:My guild has only attempted him 2 nights now (total of 7-8 attempts?) and our best was 19% just as he hit growth 12 and then killed me. what I am seeing is that the 3 healers I had assigned to me are having trouble getting to me in time. I drag Gruul back to the middle after the shatter and then they have to move away from other people because of the shatter and then get back within range of me.... all while he is hitting me for like 8K. So if only 1 of the healers get to me in time... its not enough. That is our issue.

To try and fix this I plan to put 4 healers on myself and have them spread out around me. Hopefully at least 2 can get to me fast enough after growth 12 to make a difference. I hope info is good for you as well.

BTW, Phaex is correct..... druids make great OTs here, but no so good MTs. If he says he is taking half your damage then he is lying......


Making sure you have a warrior intervening on the tank during the silence (or wherever in the script you have your tank death issue) after growth 10 or so drastically increase your chance of taking him down.
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Postby Kyroro » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:15 pm

Past 10 grows all your healers (6-7 of them) should be on the 2 tanks alone. DPS should be smart enough to avoid taking cave-in damage. Ground slams and shatters should not be killing your raid.

At 16 grows, Gruul should be dead. Even if you aren't dying, your OT will probably die. At this point it's really up to chance whether you should be alive.

Your problem is your DPS slacking. I'd suggest trying to use Wow Web Stats to evaluate your DPS. You can also see kills from other guilds and see how much damage they did. They also might be dying early. NO ONE should be dead before 10 grows. If they are you need to yell at them to move.

First Gruul kills should happen around 16 grows, this is exactly where you have died.

You are not at fault. I congratulate you on surviving Gruul to 16 grows, that's quite an accomplishment.
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Postby Alorianna » Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:09 am

We just downed Gruul for the first time last Monday after 2 months of attempts. I was MTing him thoughout most of the time. I honestly wish we had a warrior geared enough to do it over me, but all our warriors still had less HP than me =/. Had a hard time keeping active ones. Anyways, me and my main druid tank (I don't like claiming the title of MT) both have tried to MT him. My armor is maybe at 66% reduction with Iron shields up and his is maxed at 75%. The difference in damage we take is not much and he gets crushed all the time. Both of us tended to die around grow 14. I've lived as long as grow 17 I am told (wasn't paying attention at that point, but the 15.5 Hurtful strike that killed me makes me believe it)

I love having a druid OT since they can keep up with me for the most part in threat while OTing. I'd rather have a warrior tank it myself until DPS can keep up with my threat. Some of them can, but not all of them. That and Shield Wall rocks for a fight that's going on too long or when the OT dies.
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Postby Puss » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:24 am

Even if MT dies on Gruul, and OT takes the MT role, you can still try and burn him down. I know very few tanks that will actually live thru the whole fight after wave 16ish, he just hits too hard and your priests will have no more mana ( and pots on CD ). There's no shame in dying, your OT will take over for a bit, he'll 1hit a rogue every whatever seconds, plenty of time to burn him still. Don't give up if Gruul is under 15% hp, you can STILL nuke him even without a MT , as long as you OT is still alive you have a very good chance at downing him. When your OT dies, he will basically take about 30 seconds to nuke the rest of your DPS, so then the end is near.

But yes, use damagemeters on him and see who is slacking DPS. sometimes cave-ins etc can interrupt someone to DPS, but it should never affect him all the time. If there's people doing significantly less damage , replace them. +800 damage for a mage and +1000 damage for a warlock is what you should have at a bare minimum for Gruul. ( My alt mage has +1200 frostdamage, which is reasonable, and I'm not even NEAR being the top DPS on that fight). Ofcourse now I'm playing my Puss :) but Gruul's a hard fight, and wave 16 is very very good, it means it's not the healers and not the tanks, its DPS.

You should have 1 paladin on OT tank duty healing and 6 healers on your MT tanks. The paladin can flashheal the cave-in victims.

The problem with your healers not being in time can be solved by placing 3 healers in 'safe spots' and coming out asap to heal you.

how much health did Gruul have at 16 wave ?

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