Diocaska - Several Questions.

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Diocaska - Several Questions.

Postby Diocaska » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:24 am

Hello all :D

Would like to start off by saying thanks for providing the best forum about tankadins to date.

I've been a tankadin after not long turning 70 back a month or so after BC was released. I've got myself upto 10,950 Hp (or there abouts) unbuffed. I'm crush/crit immune. My def rating is only 491 (swaped out def for an extra 15/20 stam).

I've contacted tankadins before, including Zoe (EU - Trollbane) in game. And discuss with a couple of tankadins every now and then.

I have a few questions, not in any particular order.

1. Typical 'is my gear good enough' question. In armory search, I'm the only Diocaska. Will provide link when I get home (armory blocked at work ^_^).
-I have 491 defence. Block, Parry, Miss, Dodge hit over the magical 102.4%.
- 10,957 Hp.

2. I am currently suffering with being the 3rd choice tank in guild. We've just started Karazhan, and I'm sat behind the <10.5k hp warrior.

Should I wait until we've got a second group?
Because even when considered for tanking, I'd sit as offtank, behind the 10.5k warrior. (Who has quite the immature attitude, 'your mum' jokes arent apperciated in raid).


(Maybe I'm suffering tanking envy myself, but surely this attitude is inappropriate from anyone?)


3. Maybe another guild?
I've been asked to spec holy to fill in gaps, but not had chance to tank at all. Alot of situations where people are being threatened with minus DKP due to small mistakes. Is this commonplace? E.G. DPS attacking target X instead of Y, then being threatened (publically over raid chat).
Its a new raiding guild, and maybe im just being impaicent? I want to raid. I want to tank. But maybe I'm putting my own wants a little to high?

The worst part is I believe I can do it. But i'm not being given the chance to prove myself. I've tanked Heroic Mech (full 5 boss run), Ramps, Underbog. So I believe in my abilities. Granted, they're the easier ones, but its still a heroic non the less?

I've considered going to healing, because some of this is driving me insane at times. I'm not a fan of healing at all (nothing wrong with it, I just dont enjoy it). But I'm seriously considering just specing holy, so I can deal with it all.

But end of it, there's nothing I'd rather do than tank.

Thank you to everyone in advance.

- Diocaska
- EU Khadgar
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Postby Ignus » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:29 am

Find a guild that considers you a tank. You wont change anyone's mind if you never tank in raids, so you'll never get a chance to prove yourself due to lack of invites.

just look at all the guilds on the server and see which ones accept paladin tanks, then join that one.
If you invest all of your talents, all of your gear, all of your knowledge and skill into tanking, you should be the best tank.
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Re: Diocaska - Several Questions.

Postby Prepared » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:44 am

Diocaska wrote: I've been asked to spec holy to fill in gaps, but not had chance to tank at all. Alot of situations where people are being threatened with minus DKP due to small mistakes. Is this commonplace? E.G. DPS attacking target X instead of Y, then being threatened (publically over raid chat).
Its a new raiding guild, and maybe im just being impaicent? I want to raid. I want to tank. But maybe I'm putting my own wants a little to high?


I would /gquit that kind of guild in a heartbeat. There's one thing with being criticized (constructively) but being ridiculed and actively punished for simple mistakes? Thumbs down.
"Judgement day's not coming soon enough."


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Defense < 490 = Healing gear or Hydross gear.
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Postby Rhodair » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:00 am

Don't spec holy! While paladins are one of the most efficient healers, we're also one of the most boring classes to do it on. Perhaps it's just because I've experienced it on priest and druid? If you go holy, the only way you'll ever get tank gear is if it's about to be sharded.

Plus, good tanks are very much so in demand. If you're not playing a class the way you want to, you'll eventually stop playing it in general. You may see a few heroic runs as nothing specialy, but I know loads of warriors who hit 70 and jump right into Kara. You'll have an edge over them because 5 mans (especially pugs) increase your skills in ways raids can't... least that's what I believe.
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Postby Diocaska » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:37 am

Rhodair wrote:Don't spec holy! While paladins are one of the most efficient healers, we're also one of the most boring classes to do it on. Perhaps it's just because I've experienced it on priest and druid? If you go holy, the only way you'll ever get tank gear is if it's about to be sharded.



Problem is, I think i've missed my boat.

I had three offers in the last month.

One was to go Holy, and heal for a guild with 2 of my friends in. Guild is about to start SSC.

One other was to tank in a guild starting out in Kara.

Best offer, which I regretfully passed up, was to join a guild who straight out offered me a tank spot. I believe they're already doing okay in Kara, and seem to have a fair bit of ambition. Don't believe they're recuiting anymore.

I already informed our GM that I'd instantly /gquit if i'm ever threatened with minus DKP for slight user error. But at the moment, i've done 2 runs with them, both as Holy... It was my friend (Shadow Priest), who was threatened with minus DKP for attacking the wrong target (the raid markings ever very inconsistant).

My options are as follows:

Spec Holy. Join Paradise Lost <3
Spec Holy. Continue in guild.
Stay Protection. Wait till group 2 gets set up (could be some time).
Stay Protection. Look for other guilds (could be some time).

I've poured my heart into tanking. I'll link my armory tonight. I've the Libram or Repentance. Crest of Sha'tar. Timewarden Leggings. Cont' Blade. So i've really put work in. At times I hate how easy warriors have it.

Our server took time to accept Paladin tanks. I was mocked at first for being Protection. So maybe I have acceptancy issues at the moment ^_^. People would group and just leave once they found out I was tanking. People would intentionally over aggro me. Warriors would taunt off me. But I kept at it. I guess it just annoys me that yet again, I'm down the list, after putting in double the effort our OT has put in.
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Postby Loladin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:17 am

Diocaska wrote:Our server took time to accept Paladin tanks. I was mocked at first for being Protection. So maybe I have acceptancy issues at the moment ^_^. People would group and just leave once they found out I was tanking. People would intentionally over aggro me. Warriors would taunt off me. But I kept at it. I guess it just annoys me that yet again, I'm down the list, after putting in double the effort our OT has put in.


This is the most powerful QFT you're ever going to receive.
Q
F
T

Unless you're on a fresh server, or your server has miraculously always had paladin tanks, you have to convert people. Not many people think of their own volition, so they hear player myth and believe it as truth: "paladins can't tank, they have WAY less (1.2 - 1.5k) HP than a warrior and don't mitigate half as well as a druid! They can't even be uncrushable!"

I've had more trouble over 5-mans than raids. My GM and warrior MT make me tank things because they want to see how far I can go with our current setup -- not the best of players, not the most coordinated group.

http://www.eternalsacrifice.com/modules ... opic&t=234

I've done numerous threads/discussions with people like this in my guild, kinda working as my own PR agent on the protection paladin communities' behalf. It seems to be taking its toll; our fresh Kara3 group has a paladin MT. :) That's where you have to decide once you start turning heads: are you getting chances or still being shoved to the back to healbot every single "progression" fight? If it's the former, GG...the latter, /gquit.

I would if I was still being treated like shit because of my spec.
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Postby Diocaska » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:33 am

Loladin wrote: are you getting chances or still being shoved to the back to healbot every single "progression" fight? If it's the former, GG...the latter, /gquit.

I would if I was still being treated like shit because of my spec.


I've been reckonised by a few as a very good tankadin. Groups are like 'I've not had a run go so smooth, even with a warrior'. Now, even my off nights are still almost flawless clears. I was in a terrible mood when we cleared Black Morass first try. Heroics we clear without many deaths.

Even have a few people asking me for advise on Paladin tanking. (I've pointed a few in this direction ^_^, been a member for only a day, but been viewing for about three weeks).

Problem is. It only takes a few comments to get knocked down.

I cant answer that question yet, because I've been put to healing due to lack of other people capable of healing. I'll have a chat with my GM tonight. Then evaluate a few things.
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Postby Jaydin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:18 am

we face adversity around every corner

i have people swear by me - ive never heard half as many people say publically "i love it when xx (warrior) tanks he/she never loses aggro" as i've heard "dude i love it when jaydin tanks - i dont pull aggro even if i try!"

keep up the work and it'll pay off - ive created enough stir that even though my guild officers dont listen, i've gotten an invite to ssc from another guild...i'll be damned if i dont try it out!
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Postby Loladin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:31 am

Diocaska wrote:Problem is. It only takes a few comments to get knocked down.

I cant answer that question yet, because I've been put to healing due to lack of other people capable of healing. I'll have a chat with my GM tonight. Then evaluate a few things.


Those comments fade away and you get tired of converting people through anything other than word of mouth. :/ As for being "put to healing due to lack of other people capable of healing" ... tell your GM to recruit. That's about all I can say. I still have to heal a ton and I accept it because we are hybrids -- but I won't heal when I could tank the encounter just as well. I either try to get someone else in there to do more DPS or I'm "put to" tanking because our MT would rather DPS.

Communication is key.
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Postby Tumeric » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:31 pm

I am now a 6 day old 70 tankadin, and i have been tanking since mid 30's

i have gotten a good start on uncrush/crit but avoidance seems a bit slow as i cannot run heroics yet ( 1500 from rev lower 2200 from rev CE)

But the main question i have here is, Arcatraz VW room, How on gods green earth can you effectvely pull those in order to have initial aggro but not have 75% dmg reduction to holy on the target. Last night we ran this for my final kara key frag and i foudn the hardway that even running back with a body pull getting hit and retribution aura pops them back they gain resist.

Luckily later after the first 2 rogh pulls i found that tossing in a mage to icelance or a hunter to serpent sting is best, dmg isnt very high and easily picked up with a shield and exorcism.

Also in reply to the main topic, Start your own guild... i know its long and tough trust me i made mine 3 months ago but now i am MT'ing for us and we have 15 keyed for kara and runs start as soon as i hit uncrushable.
So fight the good fight and dont give up on tanking if its what you love to do.
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Postby Bemm » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:32 pm

I'd just like to put in my 2c!

Stick out the tanking, from what you said you don't get enjoyment out of the game by healing, so why do it?

Yes it is hard converting the masses.

I /gquit my last guild, who were up to ssc/eye mainly because of the shit attitude i was gettting, ie if i'm holding aggro and staying alive i'm doing my job so STFU! ..... rant over

my current guild took me on as a tank, yet asked me to spec holy for runs... i did this because at the time they only had 2 healers for kara.

their next kara run they were fine with healers but short on tanks, and were asking dps warriors to respec.... that was when i put my foot down and they've agreed to let me tank.

it is a very difficult descision as i didn't want to ostrasize my guild or make them think i was ungrateful, but it paid off.

know when to put your foot down if it's still no good, then you're not in the right guild, and as an aside, if you're doing something in the game you don't like (ie prot pally's healing) then why play? go with what you enjoy!

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Postby Rhaenys » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:35 pm

Tumeric wrote:But the main question i have here is, Arcatraz VW room, How on gods green earth can you effectvely pull those in order to have initial aggro but not have 75% dmg reduction to holy on the target. Last night we ran this for my final kara key frag and i foudn the hardway that even running back with a body pull getting hit and retribution aura pops them back they gain resist.

Luckily later after the first 2 rogh pulls i found that tossing in a mage to icelance or a hunter to serpent sting is best, dmg isnt very high and easily picked up with a shield and exorcism.


I pull the caster VW's with Mana Tap (arcane), so that way they will not resist my holy damage, as they get the resist to the first type of damage they receive. The melee one's dont require anything special iirc, as it has been a while since i was in there.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:43 pm

Bubblegirl wrote:I pull the caster VW's with Mana Tap (arcane), so that way they will not resist my holy damage, as they get the resist to the first type of damage they receive. The melee one's dont require anything special iirc, as it has been a while since i was in there.


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Postby Tumeric » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:50 pm

hmm i didnt remember seeing a mana bar on them, but i could be wrong the names of the ones i was having trouble with was screamers. But ill try that tonight as i wanna finish doing some arc runs. Btw pre heroic are there any tankadin gloves avail? i am chasing down a quest to replace my spell damage ones with. Its in nether storm green gaunts with some spell damage some stam and 17 def raiting. though i would prefer +str/stam/agi with def rather than spell damage in all truth as i havent had a problem keeping the aggro on myself so far.
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Postby Rhaenys » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:53 pm

Tumeric wrote:hmm i didnt remember seeing a mana bar on them, but i could be wrong the names of the ones i was having trouble with was screamers. But ill try that tonight as i wanna finish doing some arc runs. Btw pre heroic are there any tankadin gloves avail? i am chasing down a quest to replace my spell damage ones with. Its in nether storm green gaunts with some spell damage some stam and 17 def raiting. though i would prefer +str/stam/agi with def rather than spell damage in all truth as i havent had a problem keeping the aggro on myself so far.


I used Felsteel gloves till i got my T4.
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