Precision?

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Precision?

Postby Eltiana » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:15 am

As was brought into question in this topic: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintanka ... 22&start=0

precision may or may not affect our Taunt or Shield toss. If that is the case, is Precision still a worthwhile talent?

I realize the question is in the other topic, but I thought I'd ask here as well as I feel its a topic that should have its own thread. If I'm mistaken feel free to lock this.

To specify, Precision specifically says, "Increase your chance to hit with melee WEAPONS and spells by 1/2/3%", which would indicate it would not affect our ranged taunt or Shield toss.
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Postby Doktah » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:21 am

precision is a recommended talent by many on this board
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Re: Precision?

Postby Endus » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:30 am

Eltiana wrote:To specify, Precision specifically says, "Increase your chance to hit with melee WEAPONS and spells by 1/2/3%", which would indicate it would not affect our ranged taunt or Shield toss.


I would think the emphasis is better placed on "increase your chance to hit with melee weapons and SPELLS"

Our taunt and Avenger's Shield are probably classed as spells.
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Postby Shirak » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:36 am

I have a couple of points in it. The better I can hit, the better chance I keep a 5 stack of vengeance up on a boss.
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Re: Precision?

Postby Eltiana » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:11 pm

Endus wrote:
Eltiana wrote:To specify, Precision specifically says, "Increase your chance to hit with melee WEAPONS and spells by 1/2/3%", which would indicate it would not affect our ranged taunt or Shield toss.


I would think the emphasis is better placed on "increase your chance to hit with melee weapons and SPELLS"

Our taunt and Avenger's Shield are probably classed as spells.
Yet according to "many on this board" AS and taunt are effected by regular hit, NOT spell hit. Even if they were classified as spells, they don't use spell hit which is what Precision raises.

Edit: And to the guy that posted directly beneath my opening post, please actually READ what I wrote. I realize Precision is highly reccommended by this board, BUT that was mainly under the assumption that it affected Taunt and AS.
Last edited by Eltiana on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Precision?

Postby Endus » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:13 pm

Eltiana wrote:Yet according to "many on this board" AS and taunt are effected by regular hit, NOT spell hit. Even if they were classified as spells, they don't use spell hit which is what Precision raises.


Well, which is it? It's either affected by melee hit, or spell hit. And Precision raises both. That was part of what I was getting at; Precision affects both melee AND spells, so it doesn't matter HOW they're classified, we get +3% to hit.

And if you're going to nitpick about how it says "melee *weapons*", then I'm going to nitpick and say they're spells which use melee hit. Since they cost mana and, the case of AS, deal holy damage.

Edit: And, after reading through the other thread, I see you introduced our Taunt as a contender based on absolutely no evidence, and contrary to the gist of that thread. The only question raised there is if Avenger's Shield is considered a ranged attack, and whether Precision affects ranged attacks at all, or if it's a spell that uses melee hit mechanics and thus has an innate 1% miss chance, as all spells do. There's absolutely no reason to think our Taunt is in any way related to this.

And for the taunt alone, Precision is worth it, not to mention the extra threat.
Last edited by Endus on Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Precision?

Postby Eltiana » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:17 pm

Endus wrote:
Eltiana wrote:Yet according to "many on this board" AS and taunt are effected by regular hit, NOT spell hit. Even if they were classified as spells, they don't use spell hit which is what Precision raises.


Well, which is it? It's either affected by melee hit, or spell hit. And Precision raises both. That was part of what I was getting at; Precision affects both melee AND spells, so it doesn't matter HOW they're classified, we get +3% to hit.
The point is that it affects melee weapons which AS and taunt are not. But I guess you are correct in saying that AS and Taunt may be considered spells after re-looking at how its written. Possibly lol.
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Postby Hearthy » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:39 pm

"Hit capped" applies to one-handed weapon attacks, not necessarily anything that uses melee +hit in its calculation. It's likely that AS and taunt both work off of melee hit and are affected by Precision, but have a higher base miss chance than one-handed weapon attacks. Testing has shown that warrior taunts seem to have a >9% chance to miss as well.
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Postby Invisusira » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:41 pm

1) Melee Hit:
-Attack
-Avenger's Shield
-Taunt
-Hammer of Wrath

2) Spell Hit:
-Judgment
-Seals
-Consecrate
-Exorcism
-Holy Shield

3) Precision:
-Affects both and is awesome.
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Postby Mithos » Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:53 am

It definately affects taunt, as taunt does work on melee hit now, confirmed in some patch notes (2.3 I think).

The only question is now, does it affect le Frizbee -as in the other thread, some guy was melee hit capped and got 3 I think misses with it, so it might actually be ranged hit (needz moar testing, along with HoW).

Even if it doesn't, I think almost everyone who currently recommends, it would still do the same.
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Postby sweeney » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:15 am

Let me put it this way: Whether Avenger's Shield can miss or not if you're hitcapped, it'll miss a lot more if you're not hitcapped.
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Postby Mithos » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:39 pm

That's not the point though, the point is if precision doesn't affect it you need more hit to cap it so that it doesn't miss.
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Postby Fivelives » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:10 pm

In the EJ thread on protection paladins, they say that avenger's shield and righteous defense are affected by melee hit, but still have the spell miss chance (17% against bosses). Is that true? If so, it would explain how shield still misses even if you're hit-capped at 9% hit.
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Postby RighteousTank » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:04 am

Shirak wrote:I have a couple of points in it. The better I can hit, the better chance I keep a 5 stack of vengeance up on a boss.


Not only that, you have 3% more chance to hit, which has a chance to put down a holy vengeance, and you have 3% more chance to get a SoV procc each time you hit.

If you understand what I mean.
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