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Level of Gear to AOE Tank Kara

Attumen, Moroes, Maiden, Opera, Curator, Illhoof, Aran, Netherspite, Chess, Prince, Nightbane

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby sbeacher » Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:46 pm

The freezy skeletons on the way to opera and netherspite are the only things I can't see done without an offtank. You can get past the skeletons without an offtank but I am not really clear on how you can do netherspite without two tanks.

Also the last pack of 5 handlers/horses on the way to attumen always get close to killing me when I tank them all at once. I think this may be slackness on the healers though as they are lulled into a false sense of security by how easy the 2 and 3 man pulls are up to that point.
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Postby NarfJones » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:44 pm

sbeacher wrote:The freezy skeletons on the way to opera and netherspite are the only things I can't see done without an offtank. You can get past the skeletons without an offtank but I am not really clear on how you can do netherspite without two tanks.

Also the last pack of 5 handlers/horses on the way to attumen always get close to killing me when I tank them all at once. I think this may be slackness on the healers though as they are lulled into a false sense of security by how easy the 2 and 3 man pulls are up to that point.


We've used dps geared feral druid. Hell, we've even used a shaman with a shield.

As long as they know how to beam dance, you don't need another protection spec'd and geared tank for the red beam.
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Postby sbeacher » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:46 pm

Tried it with a Ret pally and he got owned fast.

I don't believe he had a shield, however :/
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Postby palouf » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:29 am

sbeacher wrote:Tried it with a Ret pally and he got owned fast.

I don't believe he had a shield, however :/


Always do it with a MS warrior...he swaps to shield + 1 hand in the red beam..
Generally the player in red beam just needs good armor + shield and ofc beam dancing....
So, a retri with a shield will do it easily if he masters beam dancing.
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Postby Shirak » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:57 am

As mentioned there are a couple of pulls and events that require a second tank. When we go I solo tank 90% of it.

You don't have to be in all epics you need solid healers and they need to learn how you are going to take damage on the pulls. For example, when you pull four spell shades, you are going to take some big hits. If they cast heals too soon, the shades will just run through your cons and rape the healers. If they wait too long you die.

They have to learn the encounters from their aspect as well as you learning effective ways to pull, stand etc.

plan on dieing alot the first couple times as folks get used to how the pulls go and how you need to be healed.
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Postby Endus » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:38 pm

I've been MTing Kara for my guild as progression for the last couple months. We're all about the same gear level, working forward together, and just managed our first full clear a couple weeks ago.

I've been mostly solotanking it from the start.

When we did our first clear, I had abut 11.2k unbuffed hp, 14k armor or so, and was barely uncrushable before buffs. I was still mostly in instance blues; I had my T4 gloves and three Kara epics (Moroes' watch, Boots of Elusion, and my Violet Ring).

Now, I didn't tank everything solo; we did have a warrior offtank along, and he tanked Maiden and Nightbane for simplicity's sake, while I offhealed/cleansebotted and offtanked skeletons, respectively. I did tank down Prince in that gear, though, on about the fifth try, when Infernals stopped acting like buckets of arse. The warrior also helped with Moroes, so we had him second on threat, and with Netherspite, with us swapping green/red portals (mana drain being not a huge issue, since I just quaffed a potion and was good to go). I did solotank Attumen, with both beating on me, and solotanked Romulo and Julianna as well in Opera.

My healers were on the ball, and we had at least two priests along, making for plentiful shackles, which makes a lot of the trash pulls much easier.

I'm not bragging and saying I'm awesome; my healers are great, as was my offtank, everyone in the group in fact. It's a team effort. I'm just pointing out that you can get away with a bit less than people are suggesting.

You never know if you'll succeed unless you try. Start slow, and work up. You'll see if you reach a point your gear's not up to handling.


Shirak wrote:For example, when you pull four spell shades, you are going to take some big hits. If they cast heals too soon, the shades will just run through your cons and rape the healers. If they wait too long you die.


For what it's worth, I line-of-sight pull each of those packs. By the time they get around the corner, they've already been in my Consecrate a tick or two. Don't usually ever have problems with losing them to my healers. Biggest issue in my experience is dropping the Sorcerous Shades fast enough, as their AoE can hurt the squishies pretty bad.
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Postby Thanehand » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:28 am

Refute wrote:
Thanehand wrote:
Refute wrote:Thanks for your comments. And I completely understand that these questions are rather subjective. I suppose what I was after is you want at least ________ .

A foundation is really what I was after - not a 100% guide to being able to do it, per se. Again, we have a skilled group and I have some ideas in my head of what I may need, but I wanted to see what more experienced tankadins who have done it thought.

And lastly, regarding your clarification of AOE tanking, I simply meant being able to do Kara without bringing in a 2nd tank. We will have 2 priests that can help with shackles when needed, but doing Kara with 1 tank from start to finish was mainly the point I was after.


Back to the OP

I started AOEing Kara with:

12K unbuffed health
493 Defence (490 technically)
13k Armour
roughtly 48% avoidance. Yes this means I was uncrittable but a long way from Uncrushable. (83ish % with HS up, with Badge Libram)

We had 2 Priests shield/shackles, and a shammy with GoA totem which helped.

The only boss I couldn't do like this was the Prince.
Note: our healers were mostly geared from Kara already, would recommend a lot more health/avoidance for aoeing if yours aren't.

With roughly those stats you should be able to do it normally tho.


Thanks, this was very helpful. I should be uncrittable, 12k~ hp unbuffed, and I would imagine I'll get uncrushable early on. Our healers are a ahead of the game, really. They have about every crafted piece of healing gear that can be had and the rest filled in with heroic pieces - I think they both are around 1500~ healing with a solid mp5.

Our third healer will be a holy pally and most of our dps will be caster/AOE friendly - so we should have lots of CC available, when needed.

Early on, I suppose my main concerns are being able to double tank Attumen and then Moroes - hopefully we can make due. :)


With that, you should have no problem. Take it one pack at a time to begin with, and talk to your healers about whether they're overtaxed, bored or just right or each type of mobs. Get the raid to allow you to pull a pack if you're not sure you can aoe tank it, and see if you wipe. You'll at least then know if you can/can't.

You should have absolutly no problem with Attumen, just save your exosism for when he spawns (pref macro: ./cast [target = Attumen] Exorcism). Moroes will be more of a problem. Get 2 add's shackled, 1 feared, and get the raid to burn the other down. Bring a Warrior or Rogue and have him OT with you all the time. Keep Blessing of Sacrifice up on him all the time, if Moroes blinds/gouges you, he'll go to the OT, break the gouge/blind and come straight back to you. Make sure your raid understand this tho, the rogue should be ready to pop evasion, and the raid shouldn't go over his aggro.

The Ushers (as have been mentioned) will cause a bit of problem. Assuming you have 2 priests, they are solo tankable. Get 1 priest to shackle one, and you tank the other. The other priest should spam shackle the tanked one, with a bit of luck it will interupt his Ice Tomb. Make sure the raid stand well back to give maximum Run Time.

Maiden is fine, just get the rhythm of the sliences. You might have to try this several times.

Nightbane, again, make sure you have 2 priests for fear ward, or a shammy for Tremor Totem, this makes this fight a doddle. Otherwise, you'll have to make quick decisions on bubbling to remove fear, should you run towards the raid. It might be an idea to leave this boss until you have some gear from the rest.

Netherspite: Get your Holy pally to OT.

2 more bits of advice:
Never be too proud to use CC, even though you are trying to AOE tank the place.
Make the raid understand whats going on. Communicate what you're going to do and what you want them to do.

Also, explain that if they can take a run or two with a few wipes, while you work out what you can and can't AOE, your runs in the future will be much much quicker. When I first started I took over from our Warrior MT and our runs slowed down for a week or two. Speed picked up very quickly now and even he, grudgingly, admits that the speed we clear it at is far faster than a warrior tank could do.
Don't be afraid to take a couple of steps back to take a giant leap forward :D
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Postby 2ndNin » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:41 am

Ushers can be OT'd by a hunter, have him 2nd on aggro list and FD when he gains aggro (or a rogue CoS?) and the usher comes back and breaks the ice tomb.
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Postby Holyfuri » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:23 am

As some previous posters said the main issue is the group as a whole. I did it missing some peices that I have now with absolutely no cc, with three pally healers, two at 2k healing and a third at 1400. Definetely overgeared, now in my current gear I have been solo healed through nightbane, prince, and almost every aoe group in kara. When I get to the ethereal thieves now I have people in the raid yelling at me to pull more, pull more, just take the whole room! lol, so I oblige them.

The priests love it when I tank because they aren't on shackle duty, and the hunters just get to pew pew.
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Postby blitzshark » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:45 am

I just enjoy pushing the limits, While I am almost fully covered in badge epics and heroic stuff it took a while for the raid leader to unleash me. Kept triing something called CC lol. After hearing the complaints that I was breaking them he finally said ok. Two weeks into AOE tanking we cleared the place n just over 3 hours. I am still pushing the limits to find my breaking point, that is the most fun for me. This week coming up our prot warrior is coming with a DPS spec.
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Postby Shirak » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:29 am

Endus wrote:
For what it's worth, I line-of-sight pull each of those packs. By the time they get around the corner, they've already been in my Consecrate a tick or two. Don't usually ever have problems with losing them to my healers. Biggest issue in my experience is dropping the Sorcerous Shades fast enough, as their AoE can hurt the squishies pretty bad.


Those are the easy ones, but when they come down the ramp, the last one can be slow enough where this can be a risk. It's a dance.
Tuberon wrote:Tanking *is* crowd control.

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Postby Halisstra » Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:07 pm

You can use my gear as a benchmark. With what I have AOE tanking the place is pretty cake with some notes.

- On the attumen packs when it gets 4 or 5 I usually have at least one of the human looking mobs shackled. They heal, and they knockdown. Three chain knockdowns with 5 mobs beating on you is sometimes enough to kill anyone.

- I don't take the full room of ethereals, I do 4 at a time comftorably. I could probably push for more but four feels good.

- I don't aoe tank spellshade packs until the spellshade is dead. Then I round up the rest. (usually a fear/trap/shackle)

- We sometimes shackle the mobs that heartbreak (gorup mc) outside of maiden depending on the group composition, and only on the four pack.

- On the two double servant pulls inside of moroes rooms call out when you're stunned so the healers know to throw the big heals, those guys can hit you hard with no avoidance.

Other then those few notes solo, and AE tanking is pretty easy through the whole place. I even AE tank Wizard of Oz, everything but the tin man.

You can even probably AE tank some of the places I mention above but just to be safe we don't. Anything else I tank it all.

Edit: We also generally run two healers and no SP. Every once in a while a priest will spec shadow, or we'll run a third healer. For the most part though two healers can even do it. Pal/Priest.
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Postby TheHonage » Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:52 pm

I first did it at 19.8k hp 57 avoid 16k ish armor. I didn't really try before but I'm sure I could have.
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Postby Frickit » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:52 pm

we've gone up to opera with me solo tanking.
we only lost a couple of ppl at the iceblock assholes. gonna clear tonight wish me luck.
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Postby Brickhouse » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:02 pm

There is no benchmark, unfortunately.

You can have T6+ gear, but if you have 2 blue/green geared incompetent healers, you will not succeed. Sure, you can blame them, but failure is failure. =) Who cares who's fault it is? Plan for winning, instead.

Most of my early AoE experiences were spawned by failure and bad pulls =) But, I learned then the possibilities. AoE tank moroes and his mates (though need a warrior/druid to get some aggro on the lot, in case of a gouge), like 7 adds on the way to moroes at once (by accident)..attunement and nightmare, the full wizard of OZ cast =) So, on and so forth.

The key, I would say, other than you having good gear, e. g. 490 defense, at least 15k buffed health, at least 250 spell damage, and at least 40% complete avoidance, is making sure your healers are on the same page. In other words, they are aware of the game plan, and that you will take more damage than they might expect you to take. And, if they are not on the ball, and you die, you have a large group of angry mobs running around without much control - usually leads to a wipe. For this reason, I generally prefer to roll with 3 healers, so it is not as stressful for them.
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