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New to SSC, need some advice

Hydross, Lurker, Leotheras, Fathom-Lord, Tidewalker, Vashj

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New to SSC, need some advice

Postby Gray » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:02 am

So I trialed with this really great comm last night and I think I may have a shot of getting accepted into their ranks. It was a good run where we downed 3 bosses (Lurker, Morogrim and Leotheras). It was my first time seeing them bosses in action.

However, the run didn't go without a few mistakes from my side.

1) Trash Mobs. I was assigned to the skull (first in kill order), but they kept sheeping next to where I was tanking him, rendering consecration out of the question. I broke a few sheep which killed some dps and healers straightaway. I had a hell of a time keeping up threat with T5 people going nuts on dps. I pulled with AV, dropped a hammer on him, and stacked Vengeance like mad, but still lost agg quite a few times. It was embarresing. The times when I had an open area, and could spam consecrate, my threat was going through the roof. Technically, there was two MD's available onto me into open areas, but I didn't want to make extra demands on the raid. I'm was the new guy. What else can I do to keep threat if consecrate is out of the question?

2) Murlocs on Morogrim. I struggled pulling them from the healers. The murlocs from the north, got fed a shield straightaway and ran into my consecrate area, no probs. The murlocs from the south seemed to run over my consecrate straight to the healers. My shield is on CD so I can frontload threat right away. This caused a few problems. What can I do?

3) Leotheras. I was told this is a piece of cake to tank for a paladin, and it seems to be. However, dps started too early after WW and I couldnt throw my shield at him quick enough. The other tank (very experienced warrior tank) didn't seem to have as many problems and picked him up most of the time. The times the dps waited (or I was mega quick), it seemed easier and I pulled him onto me. I was shitting myself over the legendary "last 15% is hell", and was shocked at how easy it actually is. Imo, the last 15% is where you relax and continue doing what you were doing all along.

Other than that, I think I did just fine. The RL (and MT) was full of praise and so where the other tanks. They kept encouraging, advising and cheering me on. They could not have been nicer to me as a new guy in the raid.

Now if I can just sort out the above problems, things would be even better.

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Postby Invisusira » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:27 am

Sounds like you did fine. All of the things you listed are simply experience issues; it was your first time in there. Keep on raiding and you'll get the details down in no time!
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Postby ulushnar » Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:11 am

This is how I gather up the murlocs on Tidewalker:

I get a warlock to life tap themselves down and then start casting max-rank holy light on them after the Earthquake. After about three HLs, they're glued to me, as long as the healers don't cast any massive aggro heals for those 7-8 seconds.
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Postby NarfJones » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:29 pm

1) Losing aggro is not your fault. Not having your consecrate can be an issue. Just remember, you have the mob. You can move him to an open space. Once he on you just walk him away from the sheep. I do it all the time. The only stipulation is that if it's a cleaving mob, point it's back at the other members of the raid.

2) I dont' use the healing method, as our raid leaders are cautious of using new methods when one has been working. Have a slow trap laid down if possible. I personally have everyone stand inside one consecrate, drop the front, move back and drop the back as soon as it's off CD. The real key to this being successful is that the only healing going on is the main tank. We use one healer down by the watery graves and he knows not to heal anyone until the murlocs pass him. When the ground stomp happens nobody near the watery graves should be breathing until the murlocs pass them. This gets us a kill every week.

3) This fight is on the drawing table for next week, so no advice here except that losing aggro is never your fault.
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Re: New to SSC, need some advice

Postby jere » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:24 pm

Gray wrote:
1) Trash Mobs. I was assigned to the skull (first in kill order), but they kept sheeping next to where I was tanking him, rendering consecration out of the question. I broke a few sheep which killed some dps and healers straightaway. I had a hell of a time keeping up threat with T5 people going nuts on dps. I pulled with AV, dropped a hammer on him, and stacked Vengeance like mad, but still lost agg quite a few times. It was embarresing. The times when I had an open area, and could spam consecrate, my threat was going through the roof. Technically, there was two MD's available onto me into open areas, but I didn't want to make extra demands on the raid. I'm was the new guy. What else can I do to keep threat if consecrate is out of the question?

Here I would avoid using SoV. Use SoR on trash that tends to die too quickly because it is hard to make good use of SoV in those situations. Also, which trash are you trying to consecrate? For the pulls before hydross, you don't have to sheep till after the skull is down. For the pulls to lurker/leo/morogrim, the sheeping should happen at the pull. Once the sheeps go down (should be within seconds after the pull), drag your mob away from them and consecrate. Were there specific packs you were having trouble with?

Gray wrote:2) Murlocs on Morogrim. I struggled pulling them from the healers. The murlocs from the north, got fed a shield straightaway and ran into my consecrate area, no probs. The murlocs from the south seemed to run over my consecrate straight to the healers. My shield is on CD so I can frontload threat right away. This caused a few problems. What can I do?

I use the heal-a-warlock-out-of-grave-range strategy. Works like a charm. Here is a (boring) video of how it goes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi9s_z9pNTk

The Watery globules come around 7:30 if you get bored waiting for the whole video

If you don't want to use that strat, you can also use your taunt on the murlocs that run through your consecrate to healers, use a hunter slow trap, and have mages frost nova the murlocs next to you as alternatives.

Gray wrote:3) Leotheras. I was told this is a piece of cake to tank for a paladin, and it seems to be. However, dps started too early after WW and I couldnt throw my shield at him quick enough. The other tank (very experienced warrior tank) didn't seem to have as many problems and picked him up most of the time. The times the dps waited (or I was mega quick), it seemed easier and I pulled him onto me. I was shitting myself over the legendary "last 15% is hell", and was shocked at how easy it actually is. Imo, the last 15% is where you relax and continue doing what you were doing all along.



Some things that will help:

1. Have all shaman drop their searing totems in the spot where you usually tank him.
2. Use a mod like BigWigs or Deadly Boss Mods. When the timer on whirlwind gets down to 1.0-1.2 seconds, start tossing your shield so it lands right after the whirlwind is finished. If it misses, the searing totems should bring him in range for a judgement.
3. Right after you toss your shield, lay a consecrate and prep holy shield as he is running to you if possibe. DPS should wait till he is at least next to you in the consecrate attacking you. If they don't, it is their fault, not yours.
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Re: New to SSC, need some advice

Postby NarfJones » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:57 pm

jere wrote:... and have mages frost nova the murlocs next to you as alternatives.


This is dangerous as they attack the closest target. As long as you are there it works, but we've had way to troubles to use it. If you are going to use this just make sure its not near a cloth wearer
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Postby Jobah » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:33 pm

on the trash just speak up for yourself. be like "hey, its really hard for me to hold agro, especially when the dps is retarded and isnt watching threat meters." Just ask to be on targets that arent going down first. Thats what i do, i just pull my mob/mobs away from the CC and hang out and slowly build threat until they decide to kill my targets. Who cares what you're tanking on the trash, clearing trash isnt about pride or glory, its just about getting through it.

The murlocs...Start spamming heals when theyre coming, im not having any problems at all pulling agro on them. Your group needs to be careful though. When the murlocs are coming, theyre a little sensitive. From what we've discovered, you cant use a healthstone, earthshield, aoe, stuff along these lines... I dont know why, but if your group does anything like that the murlocs will go for someone other than you.

Leo, yeah i gotta agree with jere, the dps in your group is retarded. I dont know why dps behave differently from tank to tank. Its a standard rule... watch threat meters, wait til it gets rolling before you nuke. DPS is always used to being told "wait for 2 sunders", shit like that, etc... What i tell the dps in my raids when im tanking, "if you want to be on top of the dmg meters, you're going to pay for it with repair bills if you're not careful. So i hope the price is worth it."
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Postby Gray » Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:41 am

Thank you for the advice all. I think I've been accepted (but need one more trial, more as a formality I was told). I'm getting all my resistance gear sent to me when I officially become a member.

I'm taking all the advice on board when I go back there on Friday evening. Now I get to do Hydross and FLK to boot. Sunday night is Vashj. I would've seen the whole of SSC in a week, after dreaming about it for months.
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Postby Gray » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:00 am

Jere, sorry, just saw that you asked me a question.

Yes, the problem (and I kinda experienced it again last night) is the platforms you need to clear to kill the fishies for Lurker. My comm goes about it insanely quick, with DPS blowing their loads on my target even quicker. I even had one Warlock spamming searing pain :evil: . I whispered the purputrators and asked them in the nicest way possible not to embaress me by letting me lose agg. It seemed to work but only for a short while. I'm toying with the idea to offer to AoE tank the whole of every platform, with only the two other tanks grabbing their marks. Is this feasible?

Anyway, we got through things fairly unscathed and went on to down 5 bosses in just under 4 hours. We're just waiting for 2.4 so we can get to Vashj first thing at raid start.
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Postby Exodius » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:19 am

How we do the big platforms before lurker...

Healers are marked for sheep. It's expected for the mages on sheep duty to pull them out of my consercrate if needed. It's not my responsibility if they stay in. I do my best to avoid this and call out if they are stuck, but I won't hold back forever.

The hard hitters are marked for the other tanks. They taunt them and then get them out of the consercrate. Ranged dps kills them off first.

I run in, with melee dps to assist me. I AoE tank the little guys (you know the ones I mean) with melee to assist me. After they are all gone we all move on to the next primary kill target that's being tanked by someone else.

The key point is me just simply running in - if I AS it all goes wobbly. Once I'm past the healers, normally the center of the platform, it's generally safe to consercrate. Everyone else works to get non-AoE tank targets out of the consercrate. Mages can pyroblast the healers if they have to, but they know to get them out and then to sheep.

That's how we do those mobs. Everyone has a job and everyone is happy, with no one tank or person having too much strain on them. :D
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Postby Gray » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:36 am

Exodius wrote:How we do the big platforms before lurker...

Healers are marked for sheep. It's expected for the mages on sheep duty to pull them out of my consercrate if needed. It's not my responsibility if they stay in. I do my best to avoid this and call out if they are stuck, but I won't hold back forever.

The hard hitters are marked for the other tanks. They taunt them and then get them out of the consercrate. Ranged dps kills them off first.

I run in, with melee dps to assist me. I AoE tank the little guys (you know the ones I mean) with melee to assist me. After they are all gone we all move on to the next primary kill target that's being tanked by someone else.

The key point is me just simply running in - if I AS it all goes wobbly. Once I'm past the healers, normally the center of the platform, it's generally safe to consercrate. Everyone else works to get non-AoE tank targets out of the consercrate. Mages can pyroblast the healers if they have to, but they know to get them out and then to sheep.

That's how we do those mobs. Everyone has a job and everyone is happy, with no one tank or person having too much strain on them. :D


It would be heaven if I'm only expected to pick up the little ones, or our mages being cool with it to pull sheeps out of the consecrate areas, but sadly, they want to sheep and I have to work my targets out of the sheep area to somewhere safe, whilst DPS hammering away as hard as they can.

I'm assigned to the two hard hitters (cant remember their names atm) and as many little murlocs as I can pick up. Basically, I have to perform flawless to make the pull succesful. I usually run in first, AS my skull, run forward to drop the hammer on my cross and then pray to Elune for the sheeps to be away from me and the DPS to have slight lag so I can at least drop another hammer and be well into my first consecrate. If my shield miss for any reason, my heart completely stops beating and I struggle to breathe :( . In short, it's a shit storm.

Every tank is expected to output almost a 1k TPS straightaway and keep it there. I guess it's called baptism by fire. It is possible, but it's hard.
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Postby jere » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:15 am

All we typically do is the tanks run in, all the mobs converge at one spot. I toss JoR on my target for snap aggro as I run by it past the convergence spot and off to the left (we kill the outer naga 1st and 2nd and the middle naga 3rd. The mages sheep the adds right where the stuff all converges, and the other tanks (usually warriors) also pull their targets out away from the sheeps so they can TC their targets.

I would suggest not using SoV on trash in there. It is not built for quick upfront threat (it is more of a sustained threat kind of seal). Stick with SoR/JoR for the trash. If you are pulling your mob away from the sheeping area, then you should have plenty of room to consecrate. It should only be a second or maybe two before you are in consecrate-able area after your JoR.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:08 pm

What's the average dps of a dpser in a guild progressing through SSC?
My new guild has all but vashj on farm for a couple weeks(even progress kills were fast), and the worst dpser is outputiing 1090~ average dps. Is that normal? I'm having a time keeping up with them, i'm just under the guild's best warrior in tps but we both end up threat-capping them sometimes.
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Postby ulushnar » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:45 am

In my Casual group, it averages between 800-1k DPS, with 900 being normal and we're 5/6 SSC and 2/4 TK.
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Postby Robbert » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:19 am

While sheeps do work on the 2 priests we prefer to use MC on both of them. With 3 hunters along we'll burn a MD on each of the three tanks and let concecrate hold the little guys. We can generally down the big guy before he pops his fear. The advantage to this is I don't have to hold back at all on the pull which means dps can burn burn burn.
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