spell/melee hit

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spell/melee hit

Postby Nich » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:58 am

Unless I missed something, none of our actual tanking armour has spell hit on it - it comes either from enchants, gems, or our MH weapon.

Is it likely to be enough, if we grab the S2 gladiator pewpew mace, enchant our gloves, and grab the dmg/hit head enchant, rather than the def/dodge one?


On a more melee-focused line of thought, in my latest respec to prot, I grabbed 4 points in WEx (I really don't like spell warding >.>).

If 3/5 WEx was shown to be, when added up, approximately 5% or so worth of hit, then am I wasting talent points as a human pally?

I currently have 13 (5 base + 8 talented) skill on my sword and mace weapon skill.

I'm not hunting it down specifically, but I can't say I've seen any misses since I picked up this spec.

Would it be even more of a waste to grab WEx and Precision, as a human?
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Postby Kellypreston » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:51 pm

Melee/Spell Hit improve the consistency of your threat, while improving the amount of threat you make with a good pile of spell damage as well. I would recommend picking it up where you can without sacrificing other stats at all. Gloves enchant is a good place to look, since you can get either 15 spell hit (15 ilevel pts) or 8 stam (~5 ilevel pts) or...a couple other 15 pt enchants. Otherwise, just get some on your weapon, and maybe a gem if you pick up an epic one on a fluke. Other than that, try to stick to mitigation. I would not recommend swapping out your head enchant.

As to weapon skill vs melee hit...its up in the air. There is another topic on it in the forums, look at that one for theories.
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Postby Maulininis » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:45 pm

If WEx applied to avengers shield, I'd get it instead of precision. Outside that, I don't really think precision serves MUCH purpose, but hey, every little swing helps.
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Postby Ignus » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:55 am

If my understanding is correct, boss mobs have a base 5.4% chance to be missed by you, a 5.4% chance to parry you (since you are attacking from the front) and a 5.4% chance to dodge you.

so 3/3 precision would lower that miss to 2.4%, and each point of weapon skill above base cap gives:

+0.2% hit
+0.2% crit
-0.1% chance to be dodged
-0.6% chance to be parried

so, with a total increase of 15 weaponskill from the talent and human weapon specialization, the numbers come out to: +3% hit, +3% crit, -1.5% dodge, -9% parry.

so, assuming both that my numbers are correct, and the numbers given to us by the CMs are correct and everything else that is under debate in the weapon expertise thread, you would have .6% "wasted" +hit, and 3.6% "wasted" parry reduction.


I have a feeling the boss's chance to parry and be missed is higher than that, otherwise 10 weaponskill would mean that you are unparryable by bosses. If that's true, then wouldn't that give weapon skill a very powerful ability to let you attack from the front of the mob with 0 parries?

if you have 2/3 points in precision, that would leave you with 0 chance to miss still.

However, I need someone else to double check my numbers and correct me if I'm wrong.
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Postby adese » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:39 am

I recently respecced to get 3/5 WE instead of 3/3 Precision. It could just be that I'm unlucky, but I have noticed that Avenger's Shield seems to be missing a lot more now than it did previously. I'm going to keep this spec at least until the next chance that I get to tank Prince (I have a combat log from tanking him with 3/3 Precision, good way to compare the specs), but currently I'm not too fond of WE (granted, I haven't done much raiding with this spec yet - only 5 mans).
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Postby Sabindeus » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:14 am

adese wrote:I recently respecced to get 3/5 WE instead of 3/3 Precision. It could just be that I'm unlucky, but I have noticed that Avenger's Shield seems to be missing a lot more now than it did previously. I'm going to keep this spec at least until the next chance that I get to tank Prince (I have a combat log from tanking him with 3/3 Precision, good way to compare the specs), but currently I'm not too fond of WE (granted, I haven't done much raiding with this spec yet - only 5 mans).


Weapon skill won't affect the miss rate of Avenger's Shield, since that works off of your ranged weapon skill (ranged weapon lols?!?!!?), whereas Precision will.
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Postby Joanadark » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:56 am

Weapon skill won't affect the miss rate of Avenger's Shield, since that works off of your ranged weapon skill


where are you getting this information?

I've always presumed that it was based on SPELL hit chance, being a spell.
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Postby adese » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:13 am

Sabindeus wrote:Weapon skill won't affect the miss rate of Avenger's Shield, since that works off of your ranged weapon skill


Yeah, I know - that's why I'm leaning towards going back to Precision over 3/5 WE. Just waiting till I can get a combat log of fighting Prince first, so I see see what the difference is.

Joanadark wrote:where are you getting this information?

I've always presumed that it was based on SPELL hit chance, being a spell.


The reason that you know that Avenger's Shield goes off of melee hit vs spell hit is because when it misses, the game says "Miss" instead of "Resist". The same goes for Hammer of Wrath. Judgement goes off of Spell Hit since it says "Resist" when you miss with it.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:22 am

Not long after the TBC talents were revealed, Kalgan answered a post by Gregthegreat that asked about some of the mechanics of AS. Unfortunately, the blue.cardplace.com archive isn't working, so I can't dig it up, but I'm pretty sure he said that it was based off of Spell hit and Spell crit. Then again it seems to crit for double dmg.

It wouldn't make much sense to be base on ranged weapon skill though, and I would think it would miss a lot. What is hammer of wrath based on?
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Postby Kvaern » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:42 am

Joanadark wrote:
Weapon skill won't affect the miss rate of Avenger's Shield, since that works off of your ranged weapon skill


where are you getting this information?

I've always presumed that it was based on SPELL hit chance, being a spell.


Judging by my recap it's tied to your melee hit.
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Postby Maulininis » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:21 pm

Avenger's shield doesn't get "resisted", it gets "missed"... which led me to believe it was melee hit dependant.
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Postby Furiouso » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:29 pm

That's funny, based off of random impressions I would say WepEx helps AS hit more often, as I was missing a lot without it in AV. It's hard to get a really good sample size as it's usually only done as an opener, so it could really be based off of anything AFAIK.
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Postby Jaydin » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:53 am

Furiouso wrote:That's funny, based off of random impressions I would say WepEx helps AS hit more often, as I was missing a lot without it in AV. It's hard to get a really good sample size as it's usually only done as an opener, so it could really be based off of anything AFAIK.


av = alterac valley = bad example for picking out trends... pvp opens up a whole new can of weird stats and variables due to everything depending on not only your stats, but your opponent's stats as well

pve is much more reliable as all npc's of one type are identical, and most npc's have similar stats to each other anywho. thats why we can predict that 490 defense = crit immune, etc
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Postby Girard » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:08 pm

First off, chance to miss vs mobs 3 levels higher (ie: skull bosses) is
5% base + 0.2%/pt difference between your WS and their Def (if over 10)
or
5% base + 0.1%/pt differeence between your WS and their (if 10 or less)

This means base miss vs 73 is 8% (365def vs 350 WS). Human racial (+5 WS) drops that to 6%

5/5 WEx gives you +10 skill, which alters the numbers such that you end up with 5.5% miss, or flat 5% miss if human
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Postby Kellypreston » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:14 pm

It's pretty well documented that the Euro CM was wrong. Check the weapon expertise thread in this forum.
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