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Question About # of Tanks in 25-mans

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Question About # of Tanks in 25-mans

Postby Neelah » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:16 am

Hello All. First off, I would just like to say I am a long time lurker and the info you guys put out on this site is very helpful. Hopefully I am posting this in the right area.

Ok here is a quick overview so you can see where I am at when I ask my question. I am in a smaller, casual/family type guild. Most people are 20+ and we have a lot of couples that play together. We raid, but we are not hardcore. We currently have 2 10 man teams w/ kara on farm (usually can do a 1 night clear, and if not – can pop in on day 2 to do like Netherspite, Chess, and Prince). We are starting our first trip into Gruul next week.

Here is the position I am in. Currently, I am raiding on my Boomkin. I am an officer in this guild (GM is my brother in law). I also have a prot pally alt that I have enjoyed tanking 5-mans and some heroics on, but being my alt, she isn’t geared super. Our server seems to have a shortage of tanks (whether for recruitment or just plain looking for one to PUG). Due to that, I have been asked to raid on my pally recently so we can maintain our 2 10 mans.

So, this is my issue/question. How many tanks do you normally need when you run a 25 (and I don’t mean including reserves and what not – I mean, when you step into Gruul or Mag (lets keep it focused on those 2 for now b/c we are a long way from SSC/TK) how many tanks are on that run)? Seeing I am gonna be using my tank in kara for the near future, I was thinking about making her my main…. But I don’t want to screw myself over either. I don’t feel it is right for me to take a slot on a 25 man from one of our established tanks (if you only use 2 or 3 as opposed to 4+) – and also, our guild has rules regarding rolling on gear on your alts vs someone else main toon – basically, it is not allowed. Therefore, I don’t want to sacrifice my main (Boomkin) to support the guild in running kara, but get phased out when we do 25s b/c my tank isn’t needed, so I am gonna have to take a DPS alt – but b/c I am on an alt, I wont be able to roll on gear – so if/when we move to SSC/TK instead of having 1 geared toon, I will have 2 gimpy ones and be of no use to my guild what so ever.

Any advice anyone has to offer is much appreciated.

Thanks

N
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Postby Warrender » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:22 am

This thread has a lot of useful theoretical as well as practical answers to your questions:

http://failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/ ... php?t=7124
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Postby 2ndNin » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:07 am

Gruul:
HKM Fight:
1 tank (Paladin / Warrior / Bear) HKM
1 tank (P/W/B) The Priest guy
2 tanks (Hunters / P/W/B) The Shaman, or 1 druid (no polymorph)
1 tank (mage) The mage
0/1/2 tanks + lock (P/W/B, can be pet tanked by enslaved) The warlock.

Gruul Fight:
1 MT (P/W/B) Gruul
1 OT (P/B, W as 3rd choice) Hurtful strikes
1 3rd tank (P/B, W/3rd) when one of the above dies :D

HKM is messy, essentially you need 1 tank on HKM, 1 tank on the priest and 1 on the lock (easier with 2), the shaman can be hunter tanked (or any class really, you spend most of the fight polymorphed :D), and the mage really needs a mage to tank him, you can do it with other classes, its just less fun :D

Gruul is easy, you really want 2 tanks (1 to tank, 1 to eat bolts and save your melee dps/ MT from getting squishified). A third tank is often useful here. By preference I would put a bear of paladin in the 2nd and 3rd slots as their threat is much better as OT I have found (remember the 2nd/3rd tank needs to be 2nd on the aggro list if the MT dies or someone squishier bites it). The MT slot is open, probably pref to a warrior but paladins and bears can do it with relative easy. One thing to note is that if you have a 3rd tank / the raid it should not distract healing from the MT and OT. Gruul can hurt lots (15K crushes @ growth 15 I have eaten when I got silenced with HS nearly out of cooldown, 2 of those put me down :( )

Magtheridon:
Channelers:
By preference 4 tanks, preferably 1 paladin / bear for the first 2 and tank them as a pair. The tank on these ones will likely pick up Magtheridon (your 2nd tank could also do so but you may not have that channeler down). Preference to 5 locks, but any number of locks + some hunters or similar can do the cc for the infernals.

Magtheridon:
Warrior or Paladin by preference, Bears can do it but crushes can be very painful. Paladin threat is essentially limitless on this fight, if you oom you are doing it wrong, and Maggie is a demon :D.

We typically take 3 Tanks to HKM/Gruul, at least 2 hunters and some locks (pet tank ftw :D), the third tank on Gruul just fights to stay 3rd for the case when the MT or OT die (surprisingly not rare, healers seem to forget about the tank a lot in this fight).

Magtheridon we typically use 4 tanks + 4 locks / 2 hunters as the tank / cc contingent with the first tank on 2 mobs taking up Magtheridon when he breaks. Our tanks basically go: Maggie tank, weakest -> strongest as the channelers increase damage a lot (though tbh we are running out of stuff to differentiate warrior tanks by since the gear is equalising a lot). Typically I tank Magtheridon because I have the highest hits, and I can tank 2 channelers with easy meaning the dps can nuke straight off, by the time the dps hit the 3rd channeler there is no way they can pull, and I get to do big threat on Magtheridon.

TK so far we take 4 tanks, 2 warriors, 1 any (bear?) and 1 pally if we can. The warriors make the sentinels a much easier fight (not saying you can't tank them as a bear / paladin, but warriors have it easy). Bear typically goes dps on VR.

SSC 4 tanks, typically 2 warriors 1 random and me / another warrior.
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Postby Neelah » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:05 am

thanks
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Postby Ariashley » Mon May 05, 2008 9:17 am

In Gruul's, it was covered very nicely.

If you're expected to take that tankadin and tank up through TK/SSC, then it needs to be considered your main for gear. Void Reaver, Al'ar, Solarian and Kael all require multiple tanks - Solarian only for adds - another place a paladin is great.

In SSC, Morogrim benefits hugely from a paladin tank for the murlocs. Leotheras is pretty good for a paladin main tank (with a warlock for the demon) and Hydross requires 2 tanks for hydross with resist gear and 1-2 more tanks for the adds. Vashj requires usually 2-3 tanks. We usually brought 4 (2 of them feral druids who would only tank if needed - aka one of the others died).

In Hyjal, nothing really beats a paladin for the trash and several of the bosses are really nice with a paladin tank.
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Postby sweeney » Thu May 15, 2008 5:59 am

Another thought: By the time you get into 25-man content regularly, mains vs. alts for Kara loot should be a non-issue. If you'd rather MT Kara but run your boomkin for 25-mans, the guild should be able to accommodate that.

Does your gear allow loot to rot if an alt and only an alt wants it? Hopefully not, that makes no sense. :) If your alt is tanking Kara and thus helping the guild gear up, and there's,say, a DPS warrior main running with you, they should, personally, have the sense to pass tanking plate to your paladin regardless of his main status. (We put off-spec loot and alt's loot in the same category, basically it goes to open roll with the caveat that we ask people to be thoughtful about what they roll on.)

Actually, the way we handle alt healers pretty much covers your situation -- if we've asked someone to bring their alt or they've volunteered to do it, to cover a critical raid role that needs to be filled, we don't penalize them for being on an alt. (If you want to bring your lock instead of your hunter, then yes you're gonna just be rolling on leftovers.)

Finally, if you're regularly tanking Kara, the odds are good that you'll have a few weeks of badges before you guys have Gruul/Mag on farm. 2.3 badge BP + 2.4 paladin legs are a fantastic tanking base that takes like 5-6 Kara clears to purchase, and those pieces are better than any of the equivalent drops in T4 content by a longshot. Regardless of alt/main status, when your guild gets into TK/SSC they're going to have tanking jobs they need a prot paladin for. At that point they should have enough people wearing T4 that they can spare you a token for the shoulders (the only piece of tanking loot that I get any use out of from Gruul/Mag at all.)
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