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Heroic Difficulty Ratings

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis

Postby Blowhole » Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:19 pm

My personal opinion on heroics using an Easy, Medium, and Hard scale. There are also some that I've never attempted.

Hellfire Ramparts - Easy
The Blood Furnance - Easy
Slave Pens - Easy
The Underbog - Easy
Mana Tombs - Never Attempted
Auchenai Crypts - Medium
Old Hillsbrad Foothills - Never Attempted
Sethekk Halls - Medium
The Steamvault - Medium
Mechanar - Easy
Shattered Halls - Medium
Black Morass - Hard
Botanica - Medium
Shadow Labyrinth - Hard
Arcatraz - Never Attempted

Easy - For these instances I was able to complete them at the lowest gear level I felt possible. Each one still has a few pulls than can be tricky and a few mobs that hit like trucks, but with the proper knowledge and group composition can be completed with the least headaches.

Medium - I feel like these instances can all be done with the lower gear levels too, but gave them the Medium tag for other reasons. Some have tough mobs or pulls, like packs that fear, MC, hard hitting giants, etc. Others might have tougher bosses, like Hydromancer Thespia, the first boss in Crypts, O'mrogg in Shattered Halls, etc. But for the most part I don't like these because they take too long or take too long for the badges involved. Shattered Halls is special because it's an overall pretty easy instance but you must bring a good healer, which isn't always guaranteed in a PuG setting.

Hard - These are hard because I refuse to fully PuG them. BM is my least favorite to have any PuGs in because each spot needs to be spot on to make this work. Everything has some AoE effects now it seems and the casters that come out of the Portal absolutely own with their 5k Pyroblasts. SLabs isn't too bad but the 2nd boss is a royal pain and people get retarded on Murmur since he sucks the group together and running away seems too hard to comprehend to puggers. The ones I've never done are probably because they are hard or I've never seen them as the daily and have had no reason to do them.

These are just my opinions, this isn't a debate seeing as how others could have had better luck with certain instances. Or some people run with the same crowd all the time. This is my view as a tank for puggers on Thunderlord (US).
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Postby Nrgyplant » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:19 pm

Need a simple answer from a 12/12 pov not from a 15/15 pov...

It is quite obvious that someone in T5+ gear can run blindly through a Heroic with a Rogue using Bandages on him. What is important to a newly geared non-epic Tankadin who is a 12,000 HP / 12,000 Armor guy is thinking whether or not they can stand up to a hard hitting mob.
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Postby Holyfuri » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:10 pm

As far as capability of tanking a heroic without cc, all of them can be done. I never use cc in slave pens, even on the big pulls, nor in shadow labs, and in botanica definetely not. Never have in shattered halls either. That's me though, I detest cc if I can avoid it, lol.

And no, the healer doesn't cry and no I don't lose aggro on mobs that fear/MC/whatever. There are ways around them.

As far as rankings go though when you are first trying to do them...

Mech - 2
Slave Pens 1
Underbog 1
Shattered Halls 5
Botanica 7 (when first doing it there is some heavy spike damage in there)
Arcatraz 7
Blood Furnace 8
Ramparts 4 (mortal strike sucks when first trying to aoe this place)
Shadow Labs 8 (long with mind flays ticking like mad, and second boss...)
Setthek Halls 3 (just cc the fear mobs when first doing it)
Steam Vaults 5 (pulls to and including first boss suck, after that ezmode)
Crypts and Mana tombs have yet to tank on heroic

Just my 2 cp.
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Postby Dianora » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:58 pm

Mech - 2 (I hate wasting money, and I had to drink mana pot on the gauntlet to the last boss).
Slave Pens 1 (I pug this often)
Underbog 1 (I pug this often. The dual Bog Lord used to be a challenge. Now that they've nerfed them and seperate them, it's easy).
Shattered Halls 3 (more or less a challenge on the healer. If they can heal me through the gauntlet, it's a easy run).
Botanica 2 (just bring decent dps, and it's a breeze).
Arcatraz N (never attempted in heroic. I hated the place back when I was a healer, and I still hate tanking the place in normal mode).
Blood Furnace 7 (this place is surprisingly hard for me, harder than Shattered Halls. Lots of casters).
Ramparts 2 (pretty short of an instance).
Shadow Labs N (Never bother trying this place in heroic. The mace is not enticing enough for me to go there).
Setthek Halls 3 (Went there to do the druid epic flight form for 2 guid druids, the trash was annoying).
Steam Vaults 3 (Other than the annoying fear and MC mob, nothing to it)
Crypts N (never bother trying the place. Too many caster in the open without LoS pull).
Mana Tombs 8 (Too many caster, too many mob that stuns. too few badges for the amount of trouble it is, even though I have the key to unlock the prison boss).

Just my 2 cp.[/quote]
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Postby ldeboer » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:04 pm

Nrgyplant wrote:Need a simple answer from a 12/12 pov not from a 15/15 pov...

It is quite obvious that someone in T5+ gear can run blindly through a Heroic with a Rogue using Bandages on him. What is important to a newly geared non-epic Tankadin who is a 12,000 HP / 12,000 Armor guy is thinking whether or not they can stand up to a hard hitting mob.


Couldn't agree more

Take Blood furnace ... yeah I consider it easy now I have 16-17K armour and 15K HP

I vividly remember doing it with 11-12K armour 12K HP super avoidance gear on ... I could aoe tank with the best of em :)

Go in here ... there are a couple of pulls no CC avail.

One stuns you ... then they proceeed to rape you
No healer could hold you up

BF is a definite hard instance unless you are well armoured ... think of the 2 bog lords in UB before first boss and then imagine they can stun you and you will have zero mitigation you are going to take every blow for the next 10 seconds.
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Postby spelltank » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:41 pm

SP isnt too bad, one CC and u can do it so easily, i was at 12k health, 500 def 13k armor.

Tried MGT, and its not really that bad, the trash is annoying, but with CC, you dont need epics to tank it. My groups kinda disbanded at the 3rd boss, but since theres minimal trash between boss 3-4 (one pull from memory), and the last two bosses cant really be tanked (well, the first half of Kael is easy as), i should have been able to finish the instance pretty easily
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Postby Ariashley » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:26 am

kalbear wrote:I don't think that any heroic for a blue-wearing paladin is going to be easy, even with a great healer. Not at first. Once you get the hang of 'em it'll go faster, and once you learn it it'll go better, but it's not easy while you're underequipped. If you found it easy, it's because your group was good and your healer was great.


I ran heroic SP yesterday with a decently geared mostly in blues druid healer with no kara gear, absolutely no problems at all on any boss and I'm pretty much in all blues and still have 2 greens (exceptions, tankatronic goggles and darkmoon card: vengeance). We also didn't have any cc to speak of (elemental shaman, spriest, warlock).

The previous tank they'd tried was in all epics and couldn't get them through the 2nd trash pull... I am guessing that was due to the fact that the elemental shaman was an idiot and the tank didn't identify the issue. I informed said shaman that hitting things with chain lightning before they got near the tank and hit him/her was a good recipe for death and wiping a group. He quit it and we finished the instance without difficulty. Smart tank who has been 70 for 2 weeks > dumb tank in lots of purplz.

On the Champions, who hit like trucks, I got low a few times, but never died. My T5 shadow priest guildmate on his main surely helped - but he couldn't go all out since that would just pull off me with my whopping 215 spell dmg. Things died reasonably fast and, once you've dealt with Hyjal trash, no amount of chaos is really disturbing.

You can get through an easier heroic with a very well geared tank and a not great healer (slower since requires the tank to drink more) or with a lot of DPS and poorly geared, but well played tank and healer, or with a very well geared healer and poorly geared, but decently played tank. It's almost impossible to get through any heroic or any instance with a terrible healer and a terrible tank or with terrible DPS.

Also, if you have a main that is not your tankadin, people in Black Temple get mad at you if you forget you're not tanking and run into a pack of mobs to pull them before realizing you can't consecrate. Oops...
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Postby kalbear » Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:18 pm


I ran heroic SP yesterday with a decently geared mostly in blues druid healer with no kara gear, absolutely no problems at all on any boss and I'm pretty much in all blues and still have 2 greens (exceptions, tankatronic goggles and darkmoon card: vengeance). We also didn't have any cc to speak of (elemental shaman, spriest, warlock).


The problem with most heroics is absolutely not the bosses. Especially SP - the bosses of SP are essentially identical to the ones in normal, they've just got a bit more HP. They are total cake.

No, the trouble comes from the normal mobs. For instance, the two defenders. Those are hard-hitting mobs that can disrupt and are immune to CC. HoJ helps, but a lot of times they're just too much for one paladin to handle both of them - at least not without a great healer. If you could do it, great on you - but who was your replacement for the idiot shaman?

Also, having a spriest helps a palading ridiculously. If you have a spriest in your group, chances are you can do damn near anything without issue. They're just that good.
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Postby Norfolk » Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:16 pm

The ones I'd recommend for starting off in heroics and sticking to until you're comfortable with heroics are:

Slave Pens
Underbog
Mechanar
Botanica
Steamvaults
Ramparts

Cut your teeth in those for a while, get some easy badges relative to the other heroics. SP, UB and Ramparts are all pretty quick even for starting off.

Personally when starting the heroic scene I found the instances in Auchidown & Caverns of Time to be the hardest.
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Postby Biscotti » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:42 am

I tried heroic Old Hillsbrad yesterday, for the first time since the patch. The patrollers have been completely toned down, to the point where its indistinguishable from normal mode (other than the mobs doing more damage) ... i'd definitely place it in the 'easier heroic' range now.
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Postby Cosmoz » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:37 pm

CoT
OH - 2 ----> AOE, no CC
BM - 5 ----> ----> AOE whatever comes out of the portals :)

Hellfire
Ramps - 1 ----> AOE, no CC
BF - not sure if I tanked this in HC.
SH - 0,5 ----> AOE, no CC (my nr1 favvo HC)

Coilfangs
SP - 1 ----> AOE, no CC
SV - 1 ----> AOE, no CC
UB - 2 ----> AOE, no CC

Auch
Crypts - 4 ----> ----> AOE, no CC
Sethic - 3 ----> AOE, no CC
MT - 3 ----> AOE, no CC
Slabs - 4 ----> AOE, no CC

Tempest
Mech - 4 ----> AOE, very little CC
Bot - 0,5 ----> AOE, no CC (my nr2 favvo HC)
Arc - 4 ----> ----> AOE, no CC (if you lack dps, you wont be able to kill some of the bosses befor everyone in your group dies)

MgT - 2/7 ----> AOE, N/A CC. Unless you have a very solid group, 3rd boss CAN be hard. you cant pick just 3 random dps. if you do, you will neve rmake it. except 3rd boss, AOE everything. its easy with good healer/tank.




If the tank is raidgeared (minimum kara) and with a decent healer, you can AOE every single Heroic. Most of the will be easily AOEd, others a little more tricky. Some (like botanica, shattered halls, coilfangs) you can pull 2-3 groups and AOE them all. (sometimes as much as 15 elites)
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Postby Cosmoz » Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:46 pm

No, the trouble comes from the normal mobs. For instance, the two defenders. Those are hard-hitting mobs that can disrupt and are immune to CC. HoJ helps, but a lot of times they're just too much for one paladin to handle both of them - at least not without a great healer. If you could do it, great on you - but who was your replacement for the idiot shaman?


yea if you just started to do Heroics, those defenders can kill you very quickly (if you are in blues and 11-12k HP) they can kill you befor the healer even heal you once. (hit you for like 3500 each)
once you have a feew epics, and little more HP, those defenders get from very dnagerous to just another pack of mobs. as soon as you can survive 4 incomming hits in a row, without heals, you will have no problems with them anymore.
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Postby Boba-Fett » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:55 am

You all keep forgetting about MgT.

I finally was able to find a group that would stick it out all the way through.

I'd give it a 6. The bosses themselves aren't hard, but the trash pulls can be really tricky.
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Postby Cosmoz » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:34 pm

Boba-Fett wrote:You all keep forgetting about MgT.

I finally was able to find a group that would stick it out all the way through.

I'd give it a 6. The bosses themselves aren't hard, but the trash pulls can be really tricky.


I find the trash as easy as in all other instances. most people TRY to hard at the trash in MgT, as if they have some secret one-hit-you-die-ability..well, they dont... at the begging, I had a lot of wipes on the trash... why? well, we tried to CC everything... CC breaks, healers get agro, nukers get agro, people die, wipe.
Just skip all the CC, pull them to a safe corner (usualy not more then 20 yards away) and aoe them. even if you dont have AOE dps, you can still AOE tank them...do it once, with a decent healer (not in blues only) and you will notice they aint very hard.
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Postby Aerfalle » Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:17 pm

Cosmoz wrote:
Boba-Fett wrote:You all keep forgetting about MgT.
Just skip all the CC, pull them to a safe corner (usualy not more then 20 yards away) and aoe them. even if you dont have AOE dps, you can still AOE tank them...do it once, with a decent healer (not in blues only) and you will notice they aint very hard.

Sorry but I totally disagree.

You MUST have AOE to do this, and it must be good/fast AOE.

Healing through a Magister with charges and a Warlock while your healer gets knocked down IS hard.

My CC preference is MC, you can MC the mage guards and take out a caster with it. It rarely breaks on its own and consecrate obviously can't break it either.

You certainly don't need a ton of CC, or to CC everything, but tanking it all isn't a viable option for most groups, even overgeared ones.
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