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Two Paladin Tanks on Bear Boss and a Consistent Taunt Issue

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Two Paladin Tanks on Bear Boss and a Consistent Taunt Issue

Postby inthedrops » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:35 am

This hopefully isn't your common "My taunt failed" thread. My question is asking whether consecrate is stealing agro back right after a taunt.

I've been running ZA for a couple weeks now with another prot pally. On bear boss I take human phase and he takes bear phase. I have to tell you right up front that the guy is NOT an idiot. He's a better tank than I am, and I know he reads these forums.

We've been having consistent taunt problems during the transition from human to bear. The symptom obviously is that the boss stays on me during bear even though he taunted. I don't believe he runs any mods that tell him whether his taunt is resisted. Last night was the worst time. It literally "resisted" two or three times.

So here's the theory I came up with and why I'm posting. It seems obvious now but not at the time. I am pretty much spamming consecration the whole fight just for extra DPS since I have the mana. My guess is that perhaps after he taunts, my consecrate is getting a tick in and pulling agro right back on me. I think our spell damage is roughly equal at around 400 to 450.

The only thing that makes me think I'm wrong and that perhaps it really is a classic "taunt too early/resisted taunt" thing is that I never see the boss actually target the other tank when this happens. You'd think I'd see him target the other tank for a split second and come back to me. But he stays targeted on me the whole time.

Perhaps I can convince him to install a mod so he knows when his taunts are resisted.

Regardless of your opinions, I'm just going to stop consecrating during the transitions.

(Side note: Even with those three resists we killed the bastard. Battle res and readjusting taunt rotations due to bleed debuffs and we were good to go. Kudos to our healers I guess)
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Postby Invisusira » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:39 am

There's no reason to consecrate when you're not tanking.

That being said, the ONLY reasons why the boss would not switch when taunted:

1) Resist.
2) BoP/Bubble.
3) Taunting the incorrect player.

If aggro were the case, the boss would switch to him for the duration of the taunt and then switch back to you. I don't really see that as a likely option.

How much hit rating does he have? Taunt resists are very rare, sounds like you're just a victim of some very bad luck.
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Postby Lore » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:42 am

I've pulled aggro off the OT before on accident, just DS and it'll go right back to them.

If the boss's target never switches, though, it's a resisted/failed taunt.
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Postby Questioner » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:43 am

Invis, that is the way it is supposed to work. However, go to the ZA bear boss thread and you'll see this is not the first time this is reported.

We believe it is the bear switching his target at the same time as your taunt goes off, and therefore since RD pulls the enemy off a targetted player, and that player is no longer targetted, nothing will happen.

You can see this effect on trash all the time, where the debuff does not appear on the mob forcing them to attack you, its off attacking someone completely different, and you did not recieve a failure message of any sort (yet RD is on cooldown).
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Postby Invisusira » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:44 am

Questioner wrote:Invis, that is the way it is supposed to work. However, go to the ZA bear boss thread and you'll see this is not the first time this is reported.

We believe it is the bear switching his target at the same time as your taunt goes off, and therefore since RD pulls the enemy off a targetted player, and that player is no longer targetted, nothing will happen.

You can see this effect on trash all the time, where the debuff does not appear on the mob forcing them to attack you, its off attacking someone completely different, and you did not recieve a failure message of any sort (yet RD is on cooldown).

So that would be option 3 of my post. =)

If that is indeed the case, which does make sense, then it's not a "bug." That's Working as Intended™ and User Error™.

(And yes, I know it can be annoying; I've had that happen myself plenty - just not on the bear boss.)
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Postby inthedrops » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:47 am

Thank you for the reply. I believe most of his +hit is coming by way of 3/3 Precision. I can't recall any extra gear on him with +hit. I checked his armory but he logged in farming gear. At best he would have maybe an additional 1% in hit from gear.

It does sound like bad luck.
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Postby Invisusira » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:49 am

If he has 3/3 Percision, there's no reasonable reason (lolol) for him to be getting that many resists. Check out Questioner's post about perhaps him taunting as he charges one of the other players in the raid, that would indeed explain the problems you're having.
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Postby Wulfhere » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:05 am

I have done this fight with a druid (usually), warrior, and another paladin (once). I always tank the bear phase and have never had a taunt issue. I wait until the boss' graphic actually changes to a bear before I taunt. That should eliminate any possiblity of him being in the middle of a charge when you taunt.

At the end of bear phase, I try to make sure consecration is ending and turn off auto-attack to avoid any possibility of pulling aggro back due to a string of boss miss/dodge/parry.

Edit:
I have no melee hit rating on gear, only 3/3 Precision
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Postby Questioner » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:29 am

Invisusira wrote:If that is indeed the case, which does make sense, then it's not a "bug." That's Working as Intended™ and User Error™.

(And yes, I know it can be annoying; I've had that happen myself plenty - just not on the bear boss.)


My point is, it isn't user error at all...it is bad code and lag.

Boss targets player X...I taunt, taunt now on cooldown...Boss targets player Y....Server recieves taunt...Abosultely nothing happens with the taunt, but you cannot use it.
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Postby Sthallas » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:36 am

Questioner wrote:
Invisusira wrote:If that is indeed the case, which does make sense, then it's not a "bug." That's Working as Intended™ and User Error™.

(And yes, I know it can be annoying; I've had that happen myself plenty - just not on the bear boss.)


My point is, it isn't user error at all...it is bad code and lag.

Boss targets player X...I taunt, taunt now on cooldown...Boss targets player Y....Server recieves taunt...Abosultely nothing happens with the taunt, but you cannot use it.

It actually is user error though. There is no reason to taunt before you actually see him change to the other form. Then pause for a second and then hit your taunt key. It's the taunt happy itchy trigger finger people that are having this issue. I've run ZA 2.3 times a week since it came out and never once had this issue.
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Postby Invisusira » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:36 am

Mm, in my experience (and I do have plenty of experience with this happening), it will taunt ALWAYS whatever the mob has targeted the moment you hit taunt. Animations and response may be slightly lagged due to client -> server BS, but the end result is always my taunt hitting exactally who my screen says it should, be it my intended target or not.

It's like, on a mage, when you hit blink - you'll land at a spot a set distance from where you hit the button. Your character may keep walking for a split second or change directions due to unforseen wonkyness or whatnot, but it will take you to the place you were originally pointed at.
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