Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby celast » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:28 am

dunno if this has been added or not but I cant find it, the option to space the buttons more. if this is already in the addon please show me where , if not is it possible to do?

tonight first raid night with the addon, cant wait to try it out!
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Fetzie » Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:58 am

default UI tab: Default --> Cells --> the Padding slider
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:03 am

Pyrea wrote:default UI tab: Default --> Cells --> the Padding slider


Make sure to apply the fix mentioned a couple posts back as well, or the timer will show on the buttons when it's not supposed to :)

I'm making real good progress on the new UI replacement. Here's my current project plan:

Extend Hermes API:
Release new version of Hermes that contains the API additions required for my new, extremely flexible, easier to maintain, and hopefully less overwhelming UI.

Replace DefaultUI with Buttons Style UI:
This will be the only UI that ships with Hermes moving forward. It'll act just like the current Buttons Style containers shipped with the DefaultUI today (drag and drop, auto-wrapping buttons with tooltips). No more bars!

Make current DefaultUI a separately downloaded plugin:
It will no longer ship with Hermes. Maintain as necessary but no major feature enhancements moving forward.

Introduce new UI
Create a NEW plugin for the new UI I'm working on. Give it a meaningful name. This will be the UI that many of us actually end up using. I should warn you, it'll definitely be less "easy" to configure in regard to setting up spells and the ordering of spells. But it opens up huge opportunities to create true custom "Views" (e.g. Buttons Style, Bars Style, Merged, etc). I'll be able to do pretty much anything without affecting existing Views.

It's more complex mostly due to the capability of having a spell belong to more than one View. This adds some slightly confusing spell setup that doesn't exist today.

Summary:
There are a lot of reasons for this plan. Most have to do with improving first time users quality of life, software maintenance and support, current design constraints, and an improved level of quality moving forward. By breaking things out this way, I will be able to be much more responsive to enhancements and bug fixes without requiring such a significant testing effort.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Dragondin » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:56 pm

If you are still interest in screenshots of hermes in other UIs, here is mine:

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BR, Aggro Trades and extern Mana CDs are own containers, the remaining spells are in standard container.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:08 pm

Dragondin, Is that 3 containers?
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Dragondin » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:21 pm

inthedrops wrote:Dragondin, Is that 3 containers?


4 containers, 3 above of grid and the one with the mana cds below.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:16 am

Here's a progress update so you can get a sense for where I'm going. Keep in mind, everything you're seeing below is part of the new UI I'm creating which has a modular approach to displaying data. See my project plan above for what I intend to do with existing UI's.

I have no ETA on anything. Right now, I've only ported the Buttons Style UI to a View, which weeded out most of the design. I haven't touched the Bars yet and they're going to be a pain in the butt.

General Tab:
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Spells Tab
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View Settings Tab
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:36 pm

2 cents for those that know why these two screenshots are exciting :)

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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Fetzie » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:40 am

Hide spells without sender means that people not in the group or (possible) in range will not get cooldowns displayed.
Merge spells into one button mean that you only have one button which saves screen estate.


correct?
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:31 am

I was just excited to show that with the new design I can now merge abilities. Apparently this has turned into my Hermes blog. I apologize if it's spammy!
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:17 am

Is the newest version updated to reflect the changes in 4.2?
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Treck » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:29 am

Id still ask for some sort of "shinyness" on CDs after they have been used for the duration of the buff, to more effeciently see when one CD goes out, and you have to get anotherone.
Its annoying keeping it in your head the duration and stuff of all the abilities.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:20 pm

Pyrea wrote:Is the newest version updated to reflect the changes in 4.2?


Yes, v2.2 has the changes to automatically work when the patch comes out. Of course, I'll be paying attention closely to any issues.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:25 pm

Treck wrote:Id still ask for some sort of "shinyness" on CDs after they have been used for the duration of the buff, to more effeciently see when one CD goes out, and you have to get anotherone.
Its annoying keeping it in your head the duration and stuff of all the abilities.


I have the basic idea for implementing this.

Let me ask you a quick question. The biggest issue is knowing how long the duration is. How would you feel if you had to manually input the duration values yourself? (once, and only one value can be entered, no fancy autodetection of how long the duration is). If you're ok with that, I can make it happen in a very behind the scenes way.

Of course, you'll probably be progressing in Firelands before I get to it :(
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Fetzie » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:47 pm

for the bar setup you could have the spell start an x second long timer, and then revert to the remaining cooldown timer. The button setup could have a global cooldown type spiral that displays the buff's remaining duration.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:38 pm

Pyrea wrote:for the bar setup you could have the spell start an x second long timer, and then revert to the remaining cooldown timer. The button setup could have a global cooldown type spiral that displays the buff's remaining duration.


Yeah the animations are not the problem. The problem is knowing how long to animate for. Some cooldowns are variable (such as our 4-piece set bonus) and either (A) tricky to determine or (B) impossible to determine.

Incidentally, for anyone wondering what my "low tech" solution for this type of challenge is, I'll explain. First, I think this will be an infrequently used option. Second, I don't want to have to modify each and every UI to have some method of allowing the user to specify details of spells that Hermes is or isn't even tracking. So my concept is to create "generic" metadata for spells which can be entered via Hermes. Basically, a button you click in the config (much like where you click the "Spell Monitor" button) that loads a table of key/value pairs. You enter a key such as "duration" and a value such as "6".

Each plugin can choose to (or not choose to) request the spell metadata from Hermes and use it how it sees fit. In the case of Treck, I'd design one of the views (He's using the Bars view, so that one) to look for metadata with a specific key, and it'll be coded to know what it means. In the case of "6" it'll know that for this spell it needs to animate for 6 seconds.

This solution is also very much out of your face, which is nice. But still allows me to add the features behind the scenes to some of the views.

I *DO* plan on doing this. And I think the requested feature would be very powerful. I do realize however that my implementation is not ideal. But then again, any other technique I could come up with would be fraught with technical challenges and complex code. This is the simplest solution I could come up with.

I think you guys will really like the new Hermes when I'm done. The simple act of being able to monitor whatever spells in whatever containers turned out to be such a huge improvement, I didn't even realize it when doing it!

Current Views I've implemented at this point are:
1. GridButtons (the buttons you use today).
2. GridBars (the bars you use today).
3. CooldownBars (a.k.a. LightUI).

The last view to implement before I release (probably) will be like GridBars but it won't autowrap and it won't have the dead space (as requested in the past page or two on this thread).
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Treck » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:24 pm

Im more than perfectly fine even if i have to add the times myself.
Important thing is that its doable.
There might not be many people who want it, but those who do will feel its very valuable, especially for fights with long durations of aoe damage.

So, dont before the EU servers come up on wednesday yeh? :P
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:55 pm

Treck wrote:Im more than perfectly fine even if i have to add the times myself.
Important thing is that its doable.
There might not be many people who want it, but those who do will feel its very valuable, especially for fights with long durations of aoe damage.

So, dont before the EU servers come up on wednesday yeh? :P


Actually, it's *possible* if and only if the servers in the US are working properly tomorrow and I have enough time to work in the day.

Regardless, it's going to be sketchy. I raided Sinestra and Nef last night using the latest version of Hermes with all of these recent changes. So it works, but I can guarantee you I missed some bugs. It usually takes a couple weeks for bug reports to get reported so I can fix them.

I'll work on the backend to get the metadata working (I'll support it in the UI after everything else is done.....UI config typically takes the longest) and figure out the animation soon. You only intend to use Bars Style display for this at the moment, correct?

BTW, checking in locale changes and I have it almost packaged up for system testing. Getting close!
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby Treck » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:05 pm

Important part is its dont before hardmodes anyway, before normalmodes would just be a plus :P
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:07 am

v2.3 Change Notes (almost ready! just needs more testing)

Major Feature Summary for v2.3:
  • Merge spells capability (i.e. many spells are treated as one)
  • Better out of the box Spell Monitor support (cooldowns, adjustments, and requirements are provided by Hermes.)
  • Enable/disable containers (e.g. hide one when you don't need it)
  • Even more spell bar customization.
  • Filter players (ignore groups 6-8, offline players, etc.)
  • Any given spell can now exist in multiple containers (or none at all).
  • Proper ButtonFacade implementation (with Masque support as well).
  • Improved configuration screens.



Extended details....


Complete UI Architecture Overhaul:
You'll notice significant changes including:
  • The DefaultUI is gone. If for some reason you still want it, it's provided as a separate addon (bundled with Hermes) called "LegacyUI".
  • The DefaultUI is replaced with the new UI, affectionately named "UI".
  • Containers now have views. Views are actually separate addons which control how a container displays itself.
  • A Container has one active view at a time, but you can switch freely between them at any time. Profile settings are associated per container, per view.

The Three Current Views Are:
  • CooldownBars: This is a direct replacement for "LightUI". If you were a fan of LightUI, this is the view you'll want to use.
  • GridButtons: This is the default button style view that current users are familiar with. Buttons are arranged automatically via an invisible grid.
  • GridBars: A highly customizable spell bar view, spells are arranged automatically via an invisible grid.

More UI Changes:
  • The ability to merge all spells in a container as one spell (GridBars and GridButtons only).
  • Player filtering (e.g. ignore players in groups 6-8 for 25 man raids).
  • Spells are no longer limited to a single container, nor are they required to exist in any containers.
  • Enhanced spell bar and nameplate configuration for GridBars view (icon placement, animation direction, swap name and duration, etc.)
  • Significant configuration refactor greatly improving setup and user experience.
  • Drag and Drop has been removed. Spells are now ordered via the Spells tab for a container.
  • Containers can now be disabled or enabled as needed.
  • Proper ButtonFacade implementation for GridButtons view.
  • GridBars and GridButtons are now completely click-through when locked.
  • Able to disable tooltip for GridBars.

Plugin API:
  • Added spell Metadata. Hereby known as Treckiedata. The intent of this feature is to allow Hermes to store user-defined spell data for addons leveraging the Hermes API.
  • Added spell/item inventory callbacks and methods (required by the new UI)

Other:
  • More bug fixes than I care to admit!
Last edited by inthedrops on Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby RedAces » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:33 am

hey inthedrops,

I used hermes during ICC but having everyone install a certain addon was not doable so I stopped and used oRA. I wanted to check it out today and it errors, I filed a ticket here: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/hermes ... on-config/ . It seems like masque making problems :(
If you need more information for this bug, I'll see what I can do!

Bye, RedAces.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:11 am

RedAces wrote:hey inthedrops,

I used hermes during ICC but having everyone install a certain addon was not doable so I stopped and used oRA. I wanted to check it out today and it errors, I filed a ticket here: http://wow.curseforge.com/addons/hermes ... on-config/ . It seems like masque making problems :(
If you need more information for this bug, I'll see what I can do!

Bye, RedAces.


Hey, thanks for the ticket!!! I updated it with the following in case there are others testing out Masque...

This is likely due to Masque. It's not yet passed Alpha stage. Masque is returning a function instead of a table where it's deprecated some LibButtonFacade methods. Until Masque hits beta stage it's not completely compatible with the release version of ButtonFacade

On order to use Hermes alongside Masque, here is a temporary workaround.

Open up \AddOns\Hermes-UI-GridButtons\Hermes-UI-GridButtons.lua

Comment out or delete the following line near the top:

local LBF = LibStub("LibButtonFacade",true)

Putting ticket on hold until Masque hits beta.


As an aside, please be careful with alpha builds of Hermes. They are often not known to be stable. However, the version you grabbed should be pretty solid, nearing Beta quality. And finally, thanks for giving Hermes a try!! Let me know how it goes once you disable LBF :)
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby RedAces » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:47 am

hey

yeah your fix works thank you. I'll test it intensivly tonight in our raid.

EDIT: I had to manually edit the spell data of Divine Guardian (prot only!) and Aura Mastery (holy only!) to reflect these restrictions.

Bye, RedAces.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:53 am

RedAces wrote:hey

yeah your fix works thank you. I'll test it intensivly tonight in our raid.

EDIT: I had to manually edit the spell data of Divine Guardian (prot only!) and Aura Mastery (holy only!) to reflect these restrictions.

Bye, RedAces.


Cool, yeah editing spells for non hermes users is par the course. I'm always thrilled to know that although some people might scoff at having to type data to make an addon work, they don't seem to think it's a big deal after the initial shock :)

BTW, the "CooldownBars" view doesn't require you to enter requirements since it only shows spells when they get used. In case that floats your boat somehow.

Last but not least, I just *fixed* Hermes support with Masque. It's not perfect but seems to work. If Masque is installed instead of the "real" LBF, then it'll still skin but you won't be able to change the skin within Hermes. You'll have to use Masque directly. It'll still work with LBF.

Check build r128.

Last but not least, although I'll fairly confident with r128, I had a couple errors the other night with an earlier build (3 to be exact) regarding being unable to locate a table value. Keep an eye for those, I am not sure if I fixed it.
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Re: Hermes: The great messenger of your raid's cooldowns!

Postby RedAces » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:25 am

inthedrops wrote:Cool, yeah editing spells for non hermes users is par the course. I'm always thrilled to know that although some people might scoff at having to type data to make an addon work, they don't seem to think it's a big deal after the initial shock :)


I'm used to use alpha-addons for a very long time and I'm a programmer myself, so those things don't scare me, but these spells are ONLY to available to these specs (and if they have the appropriate talent), so having this data on default won't be a bad idea?

inthedrops wrote:BTW, the "CooldownBars" view doesn't require you to enter requirements since it only shows spells when they get used. In case that floats your boat somehow.
Thats cool and all, but I want Hermes to be better than oRA3 (hence the switch) so I'll need to see if a spell is NOT on cooldown. Thanks anyway!

inthedrops wrote:Last but not least, I just *fixed* Hermes support with Masque. It's not perfect but seems to work. If Masque is installed instead of the "real" LBF, then it'll still skin but you won't be able to change the skin within Hermes. You'll have to use Masque directly. It'll still work with LBF.

Check build r128.

Works like a charm, thx!
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