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Ability Theory: "Seal of Protection"

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Myotis » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:36 am

Aurica wrote:Divine Will
Self Cast
Duration 5 minutes
Cooldown 5 minutes
Mana: 1200
5 Charges

The paladin is imbued with the will of the light and thus cannot be swayed or affected by certain negative effects such as stun, fear and silence.
Fear, stun, silence has no effect on the paladin the moment it is casted, however each time these abilities are casted on the paladin, it consumes one charge. In addition each time the charge is expended the paladin gains 100 health and mana.
This ability will expire when all 5 charges are used up.


I do not know where to start to tell you how overpowered this would be in the arena.
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Postby Sabre » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:00 am

Well, at least the prot pally could do something in the arena instead of watching his teammates die.
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Postby Mahale » Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:00 am

wouldn't be too over powered if it was just fear that it took into account. (and aren't hunters and their pets given a very similar ability?)

I will agree that the duration is too long, just put it on the same cool down as the warrior's berserker rage (or whatever it is that lets them stance dance)
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Postby Loladin » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:15 am

I haven't read any of the ideas in this thread; in fact, I don't plan on it. I don't think Blizzard will ever see these, and if they do, it won't matter. That's my opinion, though... sorry. :lol:

Anyway, @Lore:

What would you think about making seal of justice into something useful AND baseline? (The BASELINE part is what I like most about it.)

Seal of Justice(Rank 9) - Fills the Paladin with divine justice for 30 sec, giving each melee attack a chance to cause X to Y amount of threat. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will cause Z amount of threat to an enemy. This amount of threat is affected by threat modifiers.

It's a pure threat seal, so there's no type of damage(except white damage :P)... this way it's not overpowered in PvP and it's better for single target tanking. Maybe instead of a straight-up threat occurrence, the judgement of justice should be some type of recurring event. Some type of threat tick? I've been thinking about this for a couple days. It could be a judged-sunder-type of thing?

No idea. Just haven't had sleep and I'm bored. ;D Enjoy.

Edit: I also thought about some kind of additive mitigation seal... but meh. Other classes would think it was overpowered without looking at our situation. This doesn't seem overpowered and it helps us maintain aggro... maybe if the seal wasn't based on spell damage, we could wear a mitigation weapon. =) Also, I specifically said "threat modifiers" thinking about Righteous Fury and Blessing of Salvation... I'unno.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:11 am

We already HAVE a pure threat Seal, it just also does damage. The idea was to exchange some of the damage for bonus threat, and give some other benefit.

It'd almost have to be a deep prot talent to allow it to be decent, otherwise there's all sorts of repercussions it would have on non-prot Paladins.
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Postby Mahale » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:21 am

Loladin wrote:I haven't read any of the ideas in this thread; in fact, I don't plan on it. I don't think Blizzard will ever see these, and if they do, it won't matter. That's my opinion, though... sorry. :lol:


way to be productive in the thread there :D (i kid)
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Postby Loladin » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:24 am

Mahale wrote:
Loladin wrote:I haven't read any of the ideas in this thread; in fact, I don't plan on it. I don't think Blizzard will ever see these, and if they do, it won't matter. That's my opinion, though... sorry. :lol:


way to be productive in the thread there :D (i kid)


If I got my hopes up about some random thread in a tankadin forum, I'd be let down. =(
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Postby Mortehl » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:31 am

corc wrote:
Mortehl wrote:[...]

2) Blessing of Sanctuary - Make it self cast and add a 5% flat damage (spell and physical) mitigation. Turn Spell Warding into Improved Blessing of Sanctuary - 10/15% flat damage mitigation.

[...]


while this might help our tanking abilities, don't you think we should look less at ourselves and towards the group?

best way to get accepted into a group is to help it, none of this helps the group, just us.

Let us find a way to help the current tank as well as ourselves, one way might be to be the #1 OT and fill in for the MT when needed.

anyway, I keep reading this thread because it IS interesting to hear what others are saying. I was just sensing the increased palicraziness where buffing the pali so it is "awesome" is the only option. We are a hybrid, our strengths are in utility (blessings/seals) why not branch that utility to help the tanking in the raid/group more? If they only want warriors/druids to tank, so what, they want your new buffs so you are speced and "tanking" right next to the guy. The outcome would be better recognition and acceptance because there will be times where the MT dies and you'll pick it right up and the raid will continue to flow fine.

I'm ranting now so I'll stop :P

(soon :P)

think outside the pali-box and into the group/raid-box



Corc, honestly I'm not interested in helping the party any more then I do already. I add 10% to everyone's base abilities, auras, et cetera. I now want to do my paladin's job better: I need my tanking abilities refined. I'm tired really of having 5 minutes of fun every hour because once the real work is done some warrior with half the knowledge of the mechanics, not nearly as good gear, and a big mouth steps in and tanks.

Granted that is a generalization. I happen to like the two prot warriors in my guild, but I swear to god some time soon I'm going to blow my top when I'm swept aside for someone else in new content simply because I'm not a warrior.
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Postby Lore » Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:35 am

The problem is, the Paladin class helps other people too much.

Devotion Aura? Cool, we'll put you in the tank group, give it to the warrior. Blessing of Kings? Please be sure to buff the raid with it. Hell, even if Blessing of Sanctuary was useful, you'd just cast it on the Warrior and then he'd go tank everything.
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Postby Arcand » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:57 am

Lore wrote:The problem is, the Paladin class helps other people too much.

Devotion Aura? Cool, we'll put you in the tank group, give it to the warrior. Blessing of Kings? Please be sure to buff the raid with it. Hell, even if Blessing of Sanctuary was useful, you'd just cast it on the Warrior and then he'd go tank everything.


At least they seem to have that in mind at the moment - the friend of a friend you talked to a month ago (IIRC) was describing self-buffs, or buffs that would only help if you had Righteous Fury active, that kind of thing. It seems they've been conscious of this since at least Christmas, when they changed Improved Resistance Auras to Spell Warding.

As for the group-buffing, at least some of that is the players the class attracts - when I'm on my warrior Battle Shout is almost always up (don't have Commanding yet, too many alts), bosses are always Demo shouted, frequently Clapped and sometimes Disarmed. I'll bet most of us who have warrior alts are significantly better about that support stuff than the average warrior.
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Postby Aurica » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:14 pm

I think all the buffs that we can provide the raid with does not require us to be in melee range.

Since tankadins are meant to melee to tank. Would it be better if we can actually provide significant buffs to the raid that would require us to be in melee range? I feel this might be better than having a "selfish" ability to enhance our survivability. We shouldn't or need to replace a prot warrior if there ever was one.

Consider the benefits that a feral druid can bring to a raid. Leader of the pack and improved leader of the pack. These are significant advantages that druids bring to a raid.

The idea of 3 different tanks bringing different buffs and complementing each other with synergistic abilities may actually encourage raid leaders to bring all 3 as opposed to one or the other. Reducing the competition for the tank slot.

Just my 2 cents.
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Postby Egomantle » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:21 pm

Myotis wrote:Note2 : I think the lack of spell reflect is one of our biggest weakness. I do think it would be better included in a blessing than in a seal. Your next topic should be about that ;)


I endorse the idea of making it a magic counter, since pallys are weak there. Speeding attacks is a great idea, but really only makes us stronger where we're already strong.

Seal of Protection 1: Increases all magic resistance by <something like 100>.
This is kind of generic, but addresses some of our resistance gearing problems. Completely useless against melee, though.

Seal of Protection 2: Reflects <5%?> of spell damage to caster.
This would give a reason to put a pally tank against a caster... if the healers can stay on top of the damage, it's extra dps for the group. Still useless against melee . :?

Judgement of Protection: Interupts target's current spell cast.
It shouldn't lock a school, since if it did we'd be able to spam it every 8 seconds and really unbalance pvp.
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Postby Mortehl » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:53 pm

Lore wrote:The problem is, the Paladin class helps other people too much.

Devotion Aura? Cool, we'll put you in the tank group, give it to the warrior. Blessing of Kings? Please be sure to buff the raid with it. Hell, even if Blessing of Sanctuary was useful, you'd just cast it on the Warrior and then he'd go tank everything.


Who says Blessing of Sanct needs to stay as a group cast or needs to retain the "Blessing" Monicre?
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Postby Shadowhamer » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:00 am

Hmm I like that last seal..thats a great ideal. Would work almost like our SoV. Though I am not sure what the judgement would do.

I also like the ideal of a Seal that increase our HP. HP on deman would be great. Make it like SOV or SotC where it gets refreshed. That way we could Judge the seal, and use a different one on demand. Perhaps when judged, we keep the H gained, and damage done is decreased by a %. Would not make it OP in pvp, but would be a great raid seal.
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Postby Rashadi » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:05 am

Seal of Almost as Good as an Arms Warrior OT
210 Mana
Instant Cast
Fills the paladin with a holy light for 30 seconds, causing all melee attacks to do an addition 90-130 holy damage on hit.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 10 sec, causing 360 holy damage and reduce the enemies attack speed by 18%. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.
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