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Consecration "issue" with endgame bosses

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Consecration "issue" with endgame bosses

Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 6:22 am

I posted it in the EU class forums too, but thought this subject to be important enough to be brought up here too.


Ezarioth wrote:I noticed lately that some endgame bosses have so huge hitboxes that when paladin tank is staying in normal melee range Consecration just won't affect large enough area to "hit" that boss. This results in quite noticeable threat loss: for example with my +254 spell damage Consecration ticks 97 holy damage that equals 184 threat per second.

In some cases paladin tank can avoid this problem by running even nearer the boss, but then there's the risk of runing bit too far and having boss turn which can mean very nasty things, like Kazzak cleaving all the melee DPS. There are also cases where getting Consecration hit boss just isn't possible: for example Lurker Below can't be hit by Consecration if it is cast while standing on the rings, you'd need to be underwater.

Easiest solution to this by Blizzards part would (in my opinion) be to give us single target direct damage attack (or DoT) that deals exactly same damage as Consecration, scales with exactly same coefficiency and shares CD with Consecration. As a single target "nuke" it probably should have a bit lower mana cost than Consecration but overall the idea is to give us tool to situation where Consecration can't be used for threat without giving us more threat in situations where Consecration can be used. Hell, you can even make it require shield to avoid any "zomfg, imba prot DPS!!111" crying.

I mean ability like:

Sacred Slam (rank 6 at lvl70, like Consecration)



300 Mana 5 yd range

Instant 8 sec cooldown

Requires Shields

Slam the target with your shield, causing 512 Holy damage. Shares cooldown with Consecration.



You can easily test this issue yourself with large enough boss or just DL http://files.filefront.com//;7544639;/ and watch both my actionbars and combat log: only first Consecration that I cast while running to position deals damage.
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heh

Postby Mavrix » Mon May 21, 2007 7:51 am

Nice thought. Would probably border on OP realistically.
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 7:57 am

How it would be OP since it would result in same overall DPS and TPS as Consecration against single target and we couldn't use Consecrationt in the same time.
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Postby Rhastago » Mon May 21, 2007 8:05 am

Would be quite nice snap aggro ability.
I know I need such an ability after a taunt rather than counting on my holy shield to "proc" (Hate the blocking bug.)
Such an ability would also be fantastic for pvp, and when dealing with CC'd targets.

Really, great idea overall.
If we'd get that and 1% mana back per block we'd be sorted in that department ;)
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon May 21, 2007 8:07 am

Torakka wrote:How it would be OP since it would result in same overall DPS and TPS as Consecration against single target and we couldn't use Consecrationt in the same time.



Because in PvP you can run out of a Consecrate.

If you make it a DoT, then it would stick on your target, making them unable to avoid it that way.

If you make it an instant attack that deals all its damage up front, then it's unfair Pally burst dps lol.
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 8:17 am

That's true, but I guess pally with shield won't be killing anyone really. Or at least not more than prot warrior. ;P

Torakka wrote:Requires Shields
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Postby Lore » Mon May 21, 2007 8:31 am

I personally haven't had a problem keeping a consecrate on whatever I'm tanking, so long as you don't cross the line where the boss will turn around it's generally not a big deal.

And keep in mind that spell damage doesn't care if you're wearing a 2hander or a shield ;) Base 512 damage (+ spell damage) every 8 seconds, especially if it's given the same spell coefficient as Consecration, would be a LOT of outgoing damage if you geared for it.
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 8:45 am

Main point with that idea is to give us same threat regardles of our ability to use Consecration due stupid hitboxes of bosses. From that point of view it's pretty much meaningless if devs just change Consecration mechanics to work in those conditions too or give us new ability. I just thought this separate ability would be easiet to code.
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Postby Sabindeus » Mon May 21, 2007 9:36 am

Torakka wrote:Main point with that idea is to give us same threat regardles of our ability to use Consecration due stupid hitboxes of bosses. From that point of view it's pretty much meaningless if devs just change Consecration mechanics to work in those conditions too or give us new ability. I just thought this separate ability would be easiet to code.


When considering a new ability you have to do a full impact analysis of what it will do to the game. If you don't do that, then you end up with horrible imbalance.

Look at Spiritual Attunement and Holy paladins, and what happened there.

Now look at your suggestion. Then consider what sort of weapons Holy paladins run around with in PVP. (Hint: It's 1hander + shield)
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 9:45 am

Ok, I forgot holy palas and especially PvP aspect with them. There's two solutions I can think of:

1) Make that ability prot talent which is likely stupid move since it seems that threat is paladin baseline tanking component whereas warriors have mitigation

2) Lower the damage (and coefficience) and give it higher threat modifier, for example 128 dmg, takes 24% of +dmg, but causes 4 times as much threat as damage (excluding any other threat modifier).
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Postby Rhastago » Mon May 21, 2007 9:46 am

Here's a solution to that problem, make it a 31pt talent. :p
Holy shield moved to 21points, BoSanctuary becomes baseline and everyone are happy and balanced!
woo?
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Postby Torakka » Mon May 21, 2007 9:52 am

As long as it has cool animation! :wink:
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon May 21, 2007 10:41 am

Sabindeus wrote:
Torakka wrote:How it would be OP since it would result in same overall DPS and TPS as Consecration against single target and we couldn't use Consecrationt in the same time.



Because in PvP you can run out of a Consecrate.

If you make it a DoT, then it would stick on your target, making them unable to avoid it that way.

If you make it an instant attack that deals all its damage up front, then it's unfair Pally burst dps lol.


It'd probably work as a dot. Instead of removing it by running out you'd be able to remove it with a dispell, and it's only affecting 1 target not multiple.
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Postby Rashadi » Mon May 21, 2007 10:52 am

For balancing issues it would makes sense to just make it a revenge/holy shield type spell that does minimal ammounts of damage, but has a large threat multiplier which would equate to the same threat as consecrate.
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Postby Tauxalot » Tue May 22, 2007 9:25 am

Easy fix...

..make Holy Shock trainable...

The choice to either do dmg for threat or insta heal yourself for threat, sounds good to me.
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