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Ideal weapon speed

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Vanifae » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:10 am

I prefer 1.8 to 2.0 speed, since most spell damage swords are that speed anyway, I find it works out quite well.
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Postby Theowyn » Wed May 02, 2007 8:04 pm

Some thoughts I had on reckoning:

Since our aim is to have 102.4% avoidance, doesn't this make reckoning less effective since it can only proc off of damage? I believe it can proc off of blocked hits as long as we still take damage from the block, but I think the more complete avoidance you have, the less of a chance reckoning has to proc.

This leads me to postulate that the focus of determining which weapon speed is best depends on your taste concerning SoL/SoW and the stats on the particular weapon. Of course 2.00 speed is best because reckoning will proc sometimes, even if it is less often than when you were level 30, but what are your thoughts on this?
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Postby Vanifae » Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm

Theowyn wrote:Some thoughts I had on reckoning:

Since our aim is to have 102.4% avoidance, doesn't this make reckoning less effective since it can only proc off of damage? I believe it can proc off of blocked hits as long as we still take damage from the block, but I think the more complete avoidance you have, the less of a chance reckoning has to proc.

This leads me to postulate that the focus of determining which weapon speed is best depends on your taste concerning SoL/SoW and the stats on the particular weapon. Of course 2.00 speed is best because reckoning will proc sometimes, even if it is less often than when you were level 30, but what are your thoughts on this?

You will get hit regardless, Recknoning should proc off of partially blocked attacks, correct me if I am wrong.
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Postby Theowyn » Wed May 02, 2007 8:49 pm

I said we can still proc off of partially blocked hits in my first paragraph; my point was to bring up the question of whether or not reckoning is a good thing to base our weapon speed decisions on, since our complete avoidance, i.e. dodge/parry/miss will be fairly high; it seems counterintuitive then to itemize around an ability that we are doing our best to minimize the chances that it can proc. Did that make any sense? Lol
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Postby Vanifae » Thu May 03, 2007 5:22 am

Theowyn wrote:I said we can still proc off of partially blocked hits in my first paragraph; my point was to bring up the question of whether or not reckoning is a good thing to base our weapon speed decisions on, since our complete avoidance, i.e. dodge/parry/miss will be fairly high; it seems counterintuitive then to itemize around an ability that we are doing our best to minimize the chances that it can proc. Did that make any sense? Lol

Understood, it probably procs a whole lot less, but it is one of the better talents we have... until Blizzard decides to grace us with more abilities under our control, we are stuck with this.
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Postby Theowyn » Thu May 03, 2007 2:09 pm

Just kinda sucks that one of our best talents gets less effective the better geared we are :(

EDIT: And on another note, redoubt gets less effective the more geared we are, which is undoubtedly a tanking talent. Not to bitch, because no matter what I love my paladin, but..what ARE they thinking here?
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Postby Lore » Thu May 03, 2007 2:28 pm

Personally, I'd like to see Redoubt changed to increase block value instead of block rating for the same duration and charges.

Sigh, if only.
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Postby Mugis » Fri May 18, 2007 5:58 pm

In 2.1 it is possible to get a new mace from arena PVP points. The weapon is as follows:

Gladiator's Gavel
Main Hand
22 - 111 Damage Speed 1.60
+28 Stamina
+11 Intellect
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 18.
Equip: Increases damage and healing done by magical spells and effects by up to 199.

Could this be the best upgrade choice since Continuum Blade?
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Postby Lev » Fri May 18, 2007 10:48 pm

Its pretty nice because of a lot of Spelldmg. If you need that extra threat and like to PvP... take it!

But for me as a PvE only gamer it is not as good as continium. Resilience is something like an anti-attribute for tanking for me. If it was replaced by something else like +hit or dodge... I'd think of some PvP activity.

I hope there will be something better for us comming up soon, PvE accessable of course :)
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Postby Dorvan » Sat May 19, 2007 12:19 am

Lev wrote:Its pretty nice because of a lot of Spelldmg. If you need that extra threat and like to PvP... take it!

But for me as a PvE only gamer it is not as good as continium. Resilience is something like an anti-attribute for tanking for me. If it was replaced by something else like +hit or dodge... I'd think of some PvP activity.

I hope there will be something better for us comming up soon, PvE accessable of course :)


Getting it is one thing (I don't PvP, so I'll never have it) but it's definitely an upgrade over the continuum blade. I agree that the resilience is useless for anyone with decent tanking gear, but ignoring that you're looking at 78 spell damage as a cost of 8 spell hit and 2 stamina. That's a big upgrade any way you look at it.
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Postby Maulininis » Sat May 19, 2007 1:25 am

Resilience isnt gonna be useless in all PVE situations. Mob spells can crit, I don't have screens but ill get one the next time Aran crits me.


As for the gavel, I reckon it's an upgrade over continuum, because it means that you can drop T4 items for other ones that spend no budget on spelldmg.
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Postby Dorvan » Sat May 19, 2007 7:59 am

Maulininis wrote:Resilience isnt gonna be useless in all PVE situations. Mob spells can crit, I don't have screens but ill get one the next time Aran crits me.


I'll look forward to that screenshot. To be honest, I'm more than a little skeptical ;)
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Postby Caerdwynn » Sat May 19, 2007 8:23 am

In the last month, I upgraded from Continuum Blade to Gavel of Unearth Secrets. I spent about four instances trading between the two and watching my TPS (threat per second) - which, imho, is the only number that really counts for much in the end regarding weapons.

My cast order when tanking is Avenger's Shield (where possible), JoC, SoR, Holy Shield, Consecrate (R6), then spam JoR/SoR, Holy Shield, and Consecrate (R1).

I found that, overall, I was generating about 10% more threat with the Gavel, which is a 2.6 speed weapon.

Best advice I can give is this: if you don't feel like figuring out all of the spell damage ratios for your tank-spam and factoring in the spell damage benefits + speed of weapon, just go out and test-drive the weapon. I feel like 10% was a fairly significant upgrade, as we tend to use our weapons for a majority of the spelldamage with which we tank.
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Postby Caerdwynn » Sat May 19, 2007 8:26 am

Maulininis wrote:Resilience isnt gonna be useless in all PVE situations. Mob spells can crit, I don't have screens but ill get one the next time Aran crits me.


Hate to be a ball-buster here, but you won't get crit in PvE with spelldamage. The only time you're getting crit by Aran is when his spell trees are locked and he's hitting you with melee damage.

Crits don't exist in PvE when it comes to spelldamage. You'd see a hell of a lot more resilience on PvE gear if this was the case.. and you'd see people scrambling to stack it, just like we scramble to stack +def to 490 to avoid melee crits.
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Postby Theowyn » Sun May 20, 2007 3:11 am

I had a thought about resilience; if it were theoretically possible to stack only resilience instead of defense to push crits off the table, then stack block rating to get 102.4% combined avoidance, would this free up more itemization budget for stamina and block value? Just a thought :)
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