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Righteous Fury threat generation bugged - confirmed

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:30 am

About an hour ago on lynx I kept losing the spawn to a hunter auto shooting ... and he FD'ed.

It was very odd.
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Postby Katamai » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:24 am

NarfJones wrote:Do I see two holy shields? One at 0 sec and one at 7 sec?


It's figurine of the colossus. I use it to up my block rating/threat via Holy Shield and healing from it is nice.
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Postby Bobness » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:26 am

As i already said, i'm not much into theorycraft, but does anyone know a proper way to test this and present to Blizzard in such a manner that they can't dismiss it as Omen/KTM bug?


I could be wrong but aren't there some mobs in the blasted lands, that get to a certain health point then never die (until they re-spawn after about 10 mins)

Could be worth testing there.
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Postby Arcand » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:51 am

Katamai wrote:
NarfJones wrote:Do I see two holy shields? One at 0 sec and one at 7 sec?


It's figurine of the colossus. I use it to up my block rating/threat via Holy Shield and healing from it is nice.


You can tell the one isn't Holy Shield 'cause it doesn't have a charge counter - although it did make me double-take the first time I saw it. :)
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Postby Ohmslaw » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:36 pm

Bobness wrote:
As i already said, i'm not much into theorycraft, but does anyone know a proper way to test this and present to Blizzard in such a manner that they can't dismiss it as Omen/KTM bug?


I could be wrong but aren't there some mobs in the blasted lands, that get to a certain health point then never die (until they re-spawn after about 10 mins)

Could be worth testing there.



Ohmslaw wrote:I noticed in the known issues list for paladins on the official forums they listed the righteous fury spell costing double and it actually taking 2 dispells to get rid of it.

What I would try and also fraps is take a DPS friend over to the guys in the Blasted Lands that don't die (the name escapes me at the moment) and just buff up normally and see if he can pull off you when you have a threat lead.

One thing I am curious about is the double casting. Perhaps the second "cast " of RF is what is causing the problems. I propose for the second attempt that you burn your mana down to just enough for 1 casting of RF and then repeat the previous attempt.

A third possibility, considering so many gear changes in 2.3 is that something in the new badge rewards are causing the problem. I haven't noticed a drop in my threat production, which isn't that spectacular anyway, and I don't have any of the new badge gear yet.

Has anyone with no gear change since 2.3 noticed a change in their TPS?

I hope it's not the badge rewards as I plan on getting some of those soon.

Ohms


:?:
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Postby Joanadark » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:45 pm

there seems to be a common misconception.


WARRIOR SUSTAINED DPS FROM DEVESTATE DID NOT GET BUFFED IN RAID SITUATIONS.
What got buffed was the initial threat the first 5 and first 5 ONLY Devestates produce, as well as the rage cost being lowered which only affects off-tanking and low-rage situations, not Main Tanking sustained TPS.

Warrior sustained TPS did not go up because of Devesatate.

Warrior sustained TPS went up because of the availability of Expertise.
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Postby Bobness » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:09 am

Ohmslaw wrote:
Bobness wrote:
As i already said, i'm not much into theorycraft, but does anyone know a proper way to test this and present to Blizzard in such a manner that they can't dismiss it as Omen/KTM bug?


I could be wrong but aren't there some mobs in the blasted lands, that get to a certain health point then never die (until they re-spawn after about 10 mins)

Could be worth testing there.



Ohmslaw wrote:I noticed in the known issues list for paladins on the official forums they listed the righteous fury spell costing double and it actually taking 2 dispells to get rid of it.

What I would try and also fraps is take a DPS friend over to the guys in the Blasted Lands that don't die (the name escapes me at the moment) and just buff up normally and see if he can pull off you when you have a threat lead.

One thing I am curious about is the double casting. Perhaps the second "cast " of RF is what is causing the problems. I propose for the second attempt that you burn your mana down to just enough for 1 casting of RF and then repeat the previous attempt.

A third possibility, considering so many gear changes in 2.3 is that something in the new badge rewards are causing the problem. I haven't noticed a drop in my threat production, which isn't that spectacular anyway, and I don't have any of the new badge gear yet.

Has anyone with no gear change since 2.3 noticed a change in their TPS?

I hope it's not the badge rewards as I plan on getting some of those soon.

Ohms


:?:


Good point
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Postby Katamai » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:35 am

Looks like i'm not the only one.

I started a thread on the official forum but there's still no blue post.

Bumps/reports are welcome :)

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 2822&sid=1
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Postby Katamai » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:56 pm

Well Nickki and me did some test and finally we have some solid (if not conclusive) numbers to prove this.

I'll copy/paste our posts on the official forums

Nickki:

Bugged at low mana cost infact by 2% less threat it seems.

No really, just tested with katamai on the blasted lands mobs (using the same methods QD taught me on the PTR e.g. taunting to get 100% of the threat) Now katamai has 2% threat on gloves but in BOTH cases where we had low mana righteous fury omen (yes i used omen) showed 108% and then aggro was pulled. Several times over. NOTE: this is pulling aggro off of righteous fury casted at low mana 2% too early.

Using Righteous fury at full mana threat was pulled at or after 110% ALWAYS..

This may not be the most ideal test but it happened to do it every time, I think somone else needs to see if they find a difference between low mana RF and high double the mana cost RF. Either way why would aggro be pulled at 108 consecutively with low mana righteous fury and not when with high mana righteous fury?

And ye a small portion was whitedamage but i was using holy damage spell the most.

Small? maybe but what if its possible that this is only a tip of a much bigger problem?


Nickki's too cautious but i noticed a few more weird issues.

After Nickki got aggro, he would get 3-6% lead over me before we would both go for SoR auto-swings.

The interesting thing to notice is that we would keep the exact same threat lead which is very weird when you compare his SD vs mine (380 vs 510) and my 2% threat enchant.

According to all theorycraft that should apply to tankadins, i should be gaining on him with 230 more SD and 2% threat enchant but i wasn't. He would sit there with his threat lead until i start nuking (JoR/HoW).

We also had a few flukes where aggro would switch at 105-107% and in one case it was well below that.

As for "OMG OMEN LIEK DAT IS NOT GUD ENOUGH!"... we started with the assumption it wasn't working but every time we did a controlled test, it would give expected numbers so while it may not be official, i really don't see why it shouldn't be accounted for.

Something is there lurking and in my opinion (i think Nickki would agree) this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Postby Nicki » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:18 pm

I just thought i'd register (well it is about time i guess-.-)...

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I see this as very early testing maybe even a pilot test, identifying a problem is often better than going into detail. Fact is i was shocked that this happened again and again even with katamai using low mana righteous fury! I pulled aggro at 108% which never happened to the person using high rank righteous fury.

I'd say we were insane too so i don't care if you want to call us that but go do some testing using righteous fury casted at full mana and righteous fury casted at the minimum ammount of mana. If you get simmilar outcomes it will show some consistancy and maybe lead to something.

Imagine what if you are losing 2% threat by casting righteous fury as your first buff? what if it is actually more? what if? the question keeps springing up in my mind I lost aggro on leo to a druid using HOTS after hitting with avengers shield. In my opinion both me and katamai saw threat gained at 2% under expected and I had to work over 110% to pull aggro (omen actually looked a bit confused as to why aggro wasnt mine). Omen looks pretty solid though and seems to be including all threat multipliers.

I was skeptical too until i saw this happen but honestly wouldn't surprise me if theres more wrong then right here...I dunno i'd like someone else to either deny or confirm what we saw. Irraneous threat misshaps have to have rational explanations and tbh i dont see how with almost 600 spell damage unbuffed katamai can lose aggro on trash which hes havign a real head ache about...
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Postby QuantumDelta » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:29 am

So it was the low mana RF thing?

I'll do some tests of my own when I get the time as well.
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Postby Katamai » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:57 am

I think it's just what we could measure given the erratic behavior RF has been displaying.

I have experienced a few rather large aggro dumps but no matter how i tried, i just couldn't replicate them. When Nickki and me were testing this, we ran into few threat dumps/glues but we could not replicate them in an hour, hr and a half of testing.

But again, it should be enough for Blizzard to look into the issue.
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:23 am

So run this by me in short version..

-Casting RF when you have enough mana to double-cast results in all threat generated afterwards to cause 2% less threat than it should?

OR

-Casting RF when you have enough mana to double-cast results in a threat DROP equal to 2% of your current threat?

which one is the case? I'm not sure I understood from your statements above.
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Postby Makaijin » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:28 am

Belarkan wrote:
NarfJones wrote:Do I see two holy shields? One at 0 sec and one at 7 sec?


I bet its another buff like fire shield.


It's the Figurine of Colossus (sp?) buff.
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Postby Glam » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:07 am

Joanadark wrote:So run this by me in short version..

-Casting RF when you have enough mana to double-cast results in all threat generated afterwards to cause 2% less threat than it should?

OR

-Casting RF when you have enough mana to double-cast results in a threat DROP equal to 2% of your current threat?

which one is the case? I'm not sure I understood from your statements above.

Yep, I'm confused too. Could really use a bit of clarification here. I'm also wondering if the bug appears when you have only enough mana to cast it once.
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