Righteous Fury threat generation bugged - confirmed

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Blaen99 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:14 am

Void Reaver last night.

I typically could hold him < 50% pre-2.3. We finally got around to going after him this week.


I could rarely hold him for more than 2-3 knockbacks - even with sitting on 950+ spell damage (including JotC).

This is a 200+ spell damage increase of pre-2.3, there's something really screwed with our threat.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:45 am

lethario wrote:Nearly the same group as our last kill and more than once the murlocks went straight to the MT, no matter how much healin I did. 10k + on the 3 locks and they still went straight to him.


Sounds odd.
I had no trouble with Tidewalker last night.

Was your lock fully buffed?
Did the MT have Earth Shield or Prayer of Mending on him?
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:12 am

Dragonzbane wrote:
lethario wrote:Nearly the same group as our last kill and more than once the murlocks went straight to the MT, no matter how much healin I did. 10k + on the 3 locks and they still went straight to him.


Sounds odd.
I had no trouble with Tidewalker last night.

Was your lock fully buffed?
Did the MT have Earth Shield or Prayer of Mending on him?


Earth Shield and Prayer of Mending really fucked us up learning this boss. Now every time before I go I just remind them "all your es and pom are belong to me" :twisted:
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Postby jere » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:24 am

And Lifebloom, and if he takes a pot, and if he thunderclaps (or a dps does). many things can cause those murlocs to stay on him.
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Postby lethario » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:05 pm

I wasn't planning on raiding tonight, but it's looking like I'll get another shot at it.

The locks were buffed - same 3 as the last kill, and I put BoL on them myself. We did move ES from the MT to me, and I advised the healys to watch the HOT's. I'll see if I can get the trees to throw the lifeblooms to me and not the MT.

It was just wierd - our last kill was with a different druid MT and the Murlocks never once went for her. Last night's they went straight to him several times. Very frustrating we know we have done it, but something was different adn screwing up my getting aggro on the murlocks.

Would it be totally weird or counterproductive to ask the druid not to use any specials and just autoattack until after I've got the Murlocks stuck to me?

I'll be sure to cast RF with full mana tonight to eliminate that possibility.

Any other tips or suggestions?
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Postby Magnusharkov » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:43 pm

Tanked prince today, 400spell damage, no T4 bonus though

I was struggling to go above 400tps. 500tps was pretty much max I could spike to. Something is really not right.
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Postby Eneru » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:27 am

Working as intended

by a GM 11/20/2007

/cry
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Postby Omatre » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:55 am

I'll give you my thoughts on this, and my experience:

Pre 2.3, I was using KTM, I could realistically see overall threat.

Post 2.3, I switched to Omen, I can see the threat on a per target basis (one of its FEATURES) and I see I have a roughly 40%, yes 40 PERCENT lead in Mech on the big mech guys that have charged fist.

All of a sudden, he just breaks off and goes for the mage. The mage hit a 3500 crit, but I STILL had the lead as far as the meter showed.

So, my take on it, Omen's buggy as crap, and its getting removed as my threatmeter.

Sure, it might have more function than KTM, but KTM just plain reads right to me.

I'm gonna test KTM out on my next heroic Mech and see what the differences are if any.

Regardless, I too have seen numerous cases of threat being just absolutely trash. I'll absolutley fall off the chart for Omen, to 2-3spots off the lead, and I won't lose aggro, but then I'm off the charts ahead of the DPS, and I lose aggro.

I don't think its RF, I think its Omen screwing with our heads, and / or reading threat incorrectly, so that we're lead to assume one thing, when in reality its the exact opposite.
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Postby Iliria » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:42 am

I almost hate to ask...but has anyone tried casting RF without the talents for imp. righteous fury? ^^ I skimmed this and didn't read the whole thread so I'm not sure if it has been asked...
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Postby Nicki » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:01 am

Everyone keeps comming back with 'OMEN IS BUGGED OMG OMG NUB'

I tested omen, IT DETECTS TALENTS, THREAT MODIFIERS, ENCHANTS AND POWER GAINS as well as THREAT SWITCHES and estimates when threat should switch noteable with a huge bar saying AGGRO GAIN


Sure omen may bug when there are more than one mob but the tests I have done have involved only 1 mob!

This said my results changed to there being a general flaw in aggro gain but sadly the only other person to test this 'feature' has been Joanadark. The fact that last night i went and saw threat switchs at 135% of aggro and 125% followed by a consecutive row of 102-106% switch suggests that either the mobs in blasted lands dont apply threat rules or threat is bugged.
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Postby jere » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:33 am

Omatre wrote:I'll give you my thoughts on this, and my experience:

Pre 2.3, I was using KTM, I could realistically see overall threat.

Post 2.3, I switched to Omen, I can see the threat on a per target basis (one of its FEATURES) and I see I have a roughly 40%, yes 40 PERCENT lead in Mech on the big mech guys that have charged fist.

All of a sudden, he just breaks off and goes for the mage. The mage hit a 3500 crit, but I STILL had the lead as far as the meter showed.

So, my take on it, Omen's buggy as crap, and its getting removed as my threatmeter.

Sure, it might have more function than KTM, but KTM just plain reads right to me.

I'm gonna test KTM out on my next heroic Mech and see what the differences are if any.

Regardless, I too have seen numerous cases of threat being just absolutely trash. I'll absolutley fall off the chart for Omen, to 2-3spots off the lead, and I won't lose aggro, but then I'm off the charts ahead of the DPS, and I lose aggro.

I don't think its RF, I think its Omen screwing with our heads, and / or reading threat incorrectly, so that we're lead to assume one thing, when in reality its the exact opposite.


What version of omen were you using, and what version was he running? That makes a difference. I wouldn't be so quick to blame the threat meter, especially with some of the data collected from people in this thread.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:12 am

Eneru wrote:Working as intended

by a GM 11/20/2007

/cry


Why did you even bother?

As we all have come to find out, if I GM doesn't know the answer they will most likely say "working as intended".
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Postby jere » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:13 am

There is a GM out there in my realm that thinks I don't have a taunt :)
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Postby Dragonzbane » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:18 am

Omatre wrote:
All of a sudden, he just breaks off and goes for the mage. The mage hit a 3500 crit, but I STILL had the lead as far as the meter showed.

So, my take on it, Omen's buggy as crap, and its getting removed as my threatmeter.



Are you sure the mage pulled agro?

These Robots often reposition and it looks like they are being pulled.
The first few times it freaked me out and I went crazy taunting and boosting my agro. Was all a waste of time, the DPS never got hit or even targeted the bot just decided to move. I've noticed this a lot in Mech.

Also were you two running the same version?
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Postby Arcand » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:37 am

Dragonzbane wrote:These Robots often reposition and it looks like they are being pulled.


Truth. They'll turn to one side about 120 degrees, trot three or four steps, causing you to freak out, then turn back to you and resume the beating. Their target never seems to change, though.
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