Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:07 am

Yeah, Fluffy Pillow packs a boatload of magic damage, which will obviously bias towards stats that mitigate it (vers being high among them).

In addition, realize that haste values with Seraphim can be all over the map due to weird breakpoints, so you almost need to run scaling plots to see what's going on. Eventually I plan to implement a more thorough stat weight calculation into SimC which should alleviate this issue, but there's no ETA on that because I've been swamped with work.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Morwo » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:26 pm

Hi there,
im looking for a short stat overview like what's going on with mastery, crit and versatility when it comes do dps or mitigation.
i had an offtime of wow and used to read theckhd posts and graphs about that stuff. but now i find myself in rotation simcraft? theckhd did not even mention Versatility once in here.

edit:
just found on a diffrent site the stuff i was looking for to get from theckkd http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/01/13/ha ... nna-haste/
edit2:
Bonus Armor > Haste (to 50%) > Crit (Seraphim) >= Mastery > Crit = Vers > Multistrike > Haste (above 50%)
<3
dont nerf me bro
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby DisRuptive1 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:03 pm

Hey Theck, your Sims on Page 12 have expired.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Padim » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:13 am

Morwo wrote:Hi there,
im looking for a short stat overview like what's going on with mastery, crit and versatility when it comes do dps or mitigation.
i had an offtime of wow and used to read theckhd posts and graphs about that stuff. but now i find myself in rotation simcraft? theckhd did not even mention Versatility once in here.

edit:
just found on a diffrent site the stuff i was looking for to get from theckkd http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/01/13/ha ... nna-haste/
edit2:
Bonus Armor > Haste (to 50%) > Crit (Seraphim) >= Mastery > Crit = Vers > Multistrike > Haste (above 50%)
<3


What's the magic number (unbuffed) for HS_DP now to hit 50% raid buffed? After hotfixes and 6.1 is it still 3858 haste rating, or 42.87%?

Answers appreciated in advance.

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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:52 pm

Padim wrote:
Morwo wrote:Hi there,
im looking for a short stat overview like what's going on with mastery, crit and versatility when it comes do dps or mitigation.
i had an offtime of wow and used to read theckhd posts and graphs about that stuff. but now i find myself in rotation simcraft? theckhd did not even mention Versatility once in here.

edit:
just found on a diffrent site the stuff i was looking for to get from theckkd http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/01/13/ha ... nna-haste/
edit2:
Bonus Armor > Haste (to 50%) > Crit (Seraphim) >= Mastery > Crit = Vers > Multistrike > Haste (above 50%)
<3


What's the magic number (unbuffed) for HS_DP now to hit 50% raid buffed? After hotfixes and 6.1 is it still 3858 haste rating, or 42.87%?

Answers appreciated in advance.

Padim


http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/02/23/pa ... rotection/

look at the table, it contains all relevant haste values you need.

also yes 3858 on character sheet with 5% raidbuff.

this was updated after the haste buff.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:46 am

I got no time atm for bigger simulations.

but if anyone would be so kind.

EmpS / DivPurp vs HS / DivPurp

DPS/TMI

both talents compared with the same haste values. I suggest 3 toons. on that is <50% one @ 50% and one > 50% raidbuffed with liadrins
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby DisRuptive1 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:24 am

Is there an easy way to switch out gear to see the differences in SimCraft? For instance, my guild wants me to drop an ilvl 700 piece of gear for a 685 tier piece. I'd like to be able to show them what gear comps give me the greatest survivability.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:51 am

you can switch the item directly in the simulation sheet.

after an import you have it like this:

Code: Select all
hands=gauntlets_of_guiding_light,id=115567,bonus_id=566


which refers to this item: http://www.wowhead.com/item=115567/gauntlets-of-guiding-light&bonus=566

now you want to compare them with http://www.wowhead.com/item=113906/gauntlets-of-dramatic-blows&bonus=566

then simply change the row to:

Code: Select all
hands=gauntlets_of_dramatic_blows,id=113906,bonus_id=566


done.

ideally you want to use the automation tool to compare both items directly.

Theck wrote a nice article about this new feature:

http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/09/09/si ... al-part-i/
http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/09/10/si ... l-part-ii/
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:52 am

Schroom wrote:I got no time atm for bigger simulations.

but if anyone would be so kind.

EmpS / DivPurp vs HS / DivPurp

DPS/TMI

both talents compared with the same haste values. I suggest 3 toons. on that is <50% one @ 50% and one > 50% raidbuffed with liadrins


so I found the time after all.

I used my toon and just played around with haste levels. we have 50% haste /w Liadrins righteousness then one with -500 haste rating and one with +500 haste rating.

the equivalent with HS haste the same base haste.

if anybody finds any errors in my simulations please say so, in order for me to correct it.

so here are my results: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38739176/simc/EmpSSoR_DP_vs_HS_DP.html
Image

SoTR uptimes:

DP-HS-500haste: 71.96%
DP-HS50haste: 75.86%
DP-HS+500haste: 79.97%

EmpS-DP-500haste: 84.60%
EmpS-DP50haste: 89.05%
EmpS-DP+500haste: 89.16%

so even tho EmpS gives us between ~13% and ~10% more SoTR uptime the +15% Block and spellblock from HS still pull ahead.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Padim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:26 pm

Schroom wrote:
Padim wrote:
Morwo wrote:Hi there,
im looking for a short stat overview like what's going on with mastery, crit and versatility when it comes do dps or mitigation.
i had an offtime of wow and used to read theckhd posts and graphs about that stuff. but now i find myself in rotation simcraft? theckhd did not even mention Versatility once in here.

edit:
just found on a diffrent site the stuff i was looking for to get from theckkd http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/01/13/ha ... nna-haste/
edit2:
Bonus Armor > Haste (to 50%) > Crit (Seraphim) >= Mastery > Crit = Vers > Multistrike > Haste (above 50%)
<3


What's the magic number (unbuffed) for HS_DP now to hit 50% raid buffed? After hotfixes and 6.1 is it still 3858 haste rating, or 42.87%?

Answers appreciated in advance.

Padim


http://www.sacredduty.net/2015/02/23/pa ... rotection/

look at the table, it contains all relevant haste values you need.

also yes 3858 on character sheet with 5% raidbuff.

this was updated after the haste buff.


Thanks Shroom. I have looked at that table but as HS wasn't mentioned I was a little confused. That happens a lot :)
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Staudamm » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:22 am

Hi there

I'm currently having weird behavious with SimCraft. I'm fairly new to the tanking part so please understand.
My understanding of the current values is that haste/mastery are very close, but far ahead of other stats.
However my latest results show some untypical low haste value resp. high crit value.

Any ideas where this might be coming from?

Results are https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2UARZf-lWV8V09GUjNKZFhQSE0/view?usp=sharing
Sim Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/qRPja5Nk

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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:30 am

I suppose "Battering Talisman" is producing some odd behavior with haste when it proccs.

I simed you w/o it (the 50 mast socket I put in your chest)

results look fine now. (with HS mastery gets a bit more value)

everything is very close, as it should be. that's also the main reason why statweights aren't really that important atm. take the stats you need and ilvl>all ^^

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/387 ... udamm.html
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Mordred » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:00 am

Quick question about Empowered Seals. I am sitting at 44% haste raid buffed, so I have been using Empowered Seals and just staying in Insight for the heals. Besides some DPS increase I see no reason to weave into Righteousness since I will be way above Haste cap. I am just doing Normal/Heroic and understand all of the level 100 talents are viable.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Torquemada » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:22 am

I sit around 43% haste with food buff presently. I'd suggest giving Holy Shield a try. You'll gain a good bit of DPS when tanking, you'll block more (For more), and you can block spell effects.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Extermi » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:31 am

Mordred wrote:Quick question about Empowered Seals. I am sitting at 44% haste raid buffed, so I have been using Empowered Seals and just staying in Insight for the heals. Besides some DPS increase I see no reason to weave into Righteousness since I will be way above Haste cap. I am just doing Normal/Heroic and understand all of the level 100 talents are viable.


If you do not want to Seal Weave, then EmpS is probably not the right talent for you. Staying in Light means you miss all the haste you could get from Righteousness - which will not lower the GCD after 50% is reached but will still give you more auto-attack speed (damage), reduced cool-down of key skills like consecration/wrath (damage) and makes your sacred shield tick more often (absorption).

Just staying in light is simply not optimal, as the additional heal is relatively weak compared to what 20% haste or any of the other talent choices offers.

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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Torquemada » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:09 am

Actually, you DON'T want to seal twist in EmpS. You lose too much Holy Power/value by switching to SoI, Judging, and switching back. If you run EmpS you need to sit in SoR like a protective blanket. Additionally, the healing you're getting from SoI and its EmpS bonus will either be over-healing, or less mitigation than a SotR, and you probably could have gotten off a 3 HP Word of Glory during the time you lose twisting.

More to the point, the primary benefit gained from EmpS is the haste bonus. Going over the bonus isn't really worth it, as you could try to regem/enchant back down to 50% (1719 rating with raid buffs + the SoR EmpS active). Haste does continue to be useful past this point, but not as useful as mastery. So, if you're going to go EmpS, you either need to do this, or not run with WuE (Which I'm assuming you have to get to 44%) and use BFD/ACP or LoV if you have it, then get up to 1719, stay as close as you can without going under, and run EmpS on SoR.

I'm personally going all out haste atm with WuE, and buffing out to about the same point you're at with Holy Shield up. It's essentially the best part of EmpS and HS combined, and rather beastly.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:09 am

I'm wondering, if with the new 4p there is point where haste loses effectiveness before 50%....

reports indicate that most of the time yout only do AS->AS->AS-> SoTR
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Extermi » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:36 am

Torquemada wrote:Actually, you DON'T want to seal twist in EmpS. You lose too much Holy Power/value by switching to SoI, Judging, and switching back.


Sorry, this is plainly wrong. A normal Protection Paladin rotation is CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X... and you just replace one of the fillers with a seal switch. So for a very reasonable cost of missing a HoW or Cons here and there, you get additional haste or additional healing. You do not miss a single point of holy power.

Staying in SoR of course nets the highest DPS with reasonable survivability through higher HP generation (up to 50% haste) and higher SS absorbtion. Yet switching into SoL gives you additional survivability at a very reasonable loss of DPS in that period.

What I normally do is also stay in SoR for max DPS but when things get tight (healer have to move or die, lots of raid damage) I flip to a rotation that focuses on SoL while only swithcing to SoR to keep the haste buff up. ANd this is I believe the real strength of the talent compared to the other options - good DPS and good survivability on demand. Only using one element ist just wasting potential.

That said, I won WuE yesterday and am now at 43% haste with HS so I foresee I will use EmpS less in the future as after 50% the value of haste lessens.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Extermi » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:43 am

Schroom wrote:I'm wondering, if with the new 4p there is point where haste loses effectiveness before 50%....

reports indicate that most of the time yout only do AS->AS->AS-> SoTR


Can you link us one of there records ? While I assume that it will get nerved before I acquire the 3 pieces I´m missing it still would be interesting.

On the topic, it would just be interesting of how much holy power this generates over time. In the end, we need 60 Hopo/minute to be covered, and at 50% we are already well above 50 even without the 4 piece. So if this is good for another 10, its perfect, and if its 20 then as you said less haste still ensures nearly full coverage with only some increase in RNG, smoothed by the ShotR stack effect.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Schroom » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:16 am

it's "reports" People saying "this is how it feels"

nonetheless, here is a logfile from today of a protection paladin playing with 4piece
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Dx ... s&source=3

101 GC proccs in 7:23min
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Torquemada » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:05 am

Extermi wrote:
Torquemada wrote:Actually, you DON'T want to seal twist in EmpS. You lose too much Holy Power/value by switching to SoI, Judging, and switching back.


Sorry, this is plainly wrong. A normal Protection Paladin rotation is CS-J-X-CS-X-J-CS-X-X... and you just replace one of the fillers with a seal switch. So for a very reasonable cost of missing a HoW or Cons here and there, you get additional haste or additional healing. You do not miss a single point of holy power.

Staying in SoR of course nets the highest DPS with reasonable survivability through higher HP generation (up to 50% haste) and higher SS absorbtion. Yet switching into SoL gives you additional survivability at a very reasonable loss of DPS in that period.

What I normally do is also stay in SoR for max DPS but when things get tight (healer have to move or die, lots of raid damage) I flip to a rotation that focuses on SoL while only swithcing to SoR to keep the haste buff up. ANd this is I believe the real strength of the talent compared to the other options - good DPS and good survivability on demand. Only using one element ist just wasting potential.

That said, I won WuE yesterday and am now at 43% haste with HS so I foresee I will use EmpS less in the future as after 50% the value of haste lessens.


Point taken, I was unclear. You can absolutely seal weave throughout the fight, though I've generally found that most of the healing gained was overhealing and of little benefit. As a result I generally sit in SoR when using EmpS. As such, I was refering to an "oh $#!t" moment when you need heals quickly to support self and external cooldowns. To switch mid-fight to SoI you might likely have to break the normal priorities/rotation, which WOULD mess up your HP generation and have less of an effect than a WoG.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Yelena » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:57 pm

Schroom wrote:it's "reports" People saying "this is how it feels"

nonetheless, here is a logfile from today of a protection paladin playing with 4piece
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Dx ... s&source=3

101 GC proccs in 7:23min

It tends to come in streaks, in my experience; sometimes you're shitting GC procs, other times you aren't.

Also, to be fair, that log you linked is from Hellfire Assault, which has a lot of AoE packs in it. Once you have enough mobs beating on you (the number isn't really that many, either), Grand Crusader starts proccing like crazy, with or without the 4pc.
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Re: Theck's Simcraft Thread - WoD/6.x

Postby Extermi » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:28 pm

Yeah I also noticed the same - when I play Assault I sometimes do not come to cast fillers for quite a while, and swim in holy power.

Nevertheless, its obvious that the 4-piece, as is, just roughly ( a bit less) doubles the amount of AS you can cast. Each AS cast has a 1/2 chance to proc another one, this can (with a total of 1/4 chance) cause another and so on, and the geometric series of (1/2) obviously converges against 1 - meaning one additional AS in average for an AS you normally cast.

Very powerful ! Still collecting the missing 2 pieces, hopefully on sunday I can test it :-)
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