[5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:28 am

theckhd wrote:
Also note that if you're near 50% haste already, your haste stat weight value will generally be misleading. The sim figures out the value by adding 1000 haste, re-simming, and comparing. So if that takes you over 50% haste, it'll only give you a fraction of the value below that soft-cap.


that's what I thought. I'm wondering. why doesn't this happen with Hit and Exp cap?
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:50 am

They work in negatives delta: they deduct 1000 for each, measure how much you lose, and implies it´s how much you gain by gaining 1000 rating.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Thels » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:00 am

Anyone know how to artificially reduce your Haste to 20250, then? That might be useful to do, if your haste is above 20250, to know how useful Haste is up to the cap. If you want to know how useful Haste is post cal, just bump it up to 21250.

I'm not experienced enough with SimC to know how to do that.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:35 am

Couldn't you create a -1000 haste shirt on your equipement rundown?
Not only desktop right now, so can't give the code like that, but just adapt another piece of armor into a shirt with -1000 haste
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Rihna » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:24 am

Add on your equipment on SC
shirt=NombreDeLaCamisa,stats=-20250haste_1crit

I added crit too to show if you want to add more stats you need to put _ between them
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Thels » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:45 am

Does that set haste to 20250, or reduce 20250 haste? If the latter, it's pointless. We don't want to know how good haste is at 0% haste. We want to know how good haste is close to the cap, but still below the cap.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:59 am

Just do the same but with 1k:
shirt=Leadlinedshirt,stats=-1000haste_1crit
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Rihna » Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:09 am

shirt=NombreDeLaCamisa,stats=-20250haste

It reduce 20250 haste from your set.

On the last part of simcraft, you have # Gear Summary
With the numbers of your "real" set.

For example:
# Gear Summary
# gear_strength=18132
# gear_stamina=32001
# gear_expertise_rating=4769
# gear_hit_rating=2928
# gear_crit_rating=919
# gear_haste_rating=18078
...

On your set you have 18078 haste.
You want to test 21250 that will be 50% haste.
Add a shirt with 21250-18078=3172 haste.

If you have haste>21250 then add a shirt with -haste to artificially reduce your Haste to 20250
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:43 pm

damn EF produces a lot of aggro wit high vengeance... have to switch off "Righteous Fury" on Garosh later in the fight when the sha adds spawn... no fun :> and I'm kinda scared for the tankswaps...
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:33 pm

does the HoT-ticks of EF not scale with vengeance, when EF is put on friendly targets?

in my logs it ticked for exactly 17k on my Tankmate every time.....
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:34 am

I don't think I ever tested it specifically. I'd assume it does scale with Vengeance; if it isn't, it's probably a bug.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:15 am

those are numbers from Garrosh 10m by the way. so no way 17k can be right. as we have ~ >50% veng all the time.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:37 am

ok I checked. it was a fluke i guess. other logs from yesterday show values like 37508 and so on.

Other Question.

What about that Harsh Words build that was popular on PTR for a while. did they change it? or would it still be viable IF lots of Tank DPS is needed.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby daishan » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:54 am

Been able to spam harsh words on an enemy with the 4p was fixed, no idea if it could still be a dps increase to cast harsh words over SotR though.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby PsiVen » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:42 pm

EF was just hotfixed to +50% self-heal, down from +100%.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2715 ... tember-23/
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Thels » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:04 pm

That was kind of expected... So output is reduced by 25%. That probably still makes it better than SS, though it's a lot closer now.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Worldie » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:28 pm

You have to admit 300k+ hits from a Hot felt a bit... broken :P

(plus added a bit of weirdness to healers to see tank health spike up so much without incoming heals)
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:50 pm

Thels wrote:That was kind of expected... So output is reduced by 25%. That probably still makes it better than SS, though it's a lot closer now.


Meh, not sure it's still that close. We're still seeing what? Double the SS numbers?
If I were paranoid I'd say they nerfed us in a sneaky one-two manoeuver, but I'm more thinking they never expected those EF numbers to happen. *facepalm* Seriously...
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Worldie » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:29 pm

Actually I think they thought Prot would still stick to SS despite its nerf, without noticing the amount of theorycraft that stated that EF was a lot better even without set bonus, so didn't even bother to check the numbers.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:34 pm

Is that the moment when you throw that saying about assumptions?
Last edited by Sagara on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Schroom » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:51 pm

using Slootbags spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9R9nFi ... 5ITms/edit EF is still clearly in the lead. even tho, as mentioned it got closer.

(just download it and fill in your mastery level. change "EF Self Cast Bonus" from 2 to 1.5 )
Last edited by Schroom on Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Worldie » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:11 am

Sagara wrote:Is that the moment went you throw that saying about assumptions?


While I get what you meant, your sentence makes no sense grammarwise xD
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Sagara » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:12 am

Worldie wrote:
Sagara wrote:Is that the moment *when you throw that saying about assumptions?


While I get what you meant, your sentence makes no sense grammarwise xD


When, went! Same difference! Details!
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby daishan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:39 am

Bah... and I was just starting to be happy with how I was using EF.

Think I'll probably go back to SS on most bosses until I have 4p, the difference in healing while at 10hc veng levels just doesn't look to be enough to justify missing out on SotR casts.
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Re: [5.4 PTR] SS Nerf and EF

Postby Crumple » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:09 am

Hi all,

So, if you're not seeing the EF numbers there for 10Hc, what are the numbers like for 10/25 normal with 4x T15?

I'm guessing not fantastic, (and no wonder I'm feeling slightly more squishy)

I'd check myself, if I had the time to get my head around simcraft.
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