vengeance question

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vengeance question

Postby gomashon » Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:19 pm

Take 2% of "raw" hit as AP for 20 seconds. But how does it stack ?
Say you took big hit and got 100k AP. 3 seconds later you take a hit worth 50k. does it Avg? max? Does it work like mage's ignite?
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Re: vengeance question

Postby Jadhzia » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:20 am

If I understand correctly, it's a rolling buff: each contribution to total Vengeance has a separate duration of 20s.
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Re: vengeance question

Postby econ21 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:52 am

I read something interesting (if counter-intuitive) about vengeance on a brewmaster guide. If you take a big hit, you want to keep the vengeance from that for as long as possible (e.g. if it is followed by tank swap). So you should try to avoid a smaller hit, like soaking a damaging puddle, as it will lower your vengeance. This implies it averages, at least for the overlapping durations.

Getting half the active tank's vengeance when you taunt is also interesting, implying you might want to taunt after your 20 seconds, even if the active tank immediately taunts back, in order to keep some vengeance. (Being careful not to make the boss taunt immune!).
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Re: vengeance question

Postby Schroom » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:54 am

this should be true:

for the first hit we get:

unmitigated damage / attackspeed(of your enemy) *0.18

(if the first attack we receive is NOT a normal melee hit but a special attack, the attackspeed should be normalized to 60)

from now on Vengeance is recalculated every time we receive damage:

Vn = new vengeance

Vo = old vengeance

Td = the Delta, time since we last received vengeance through damage

D = unmitigted damage

Dm = magical damage

Vn = Vo * (20 - Td)/20 + 0,018 * D

the Faktor 0,018 is only true for physical damage. for magical damage it's:

Vn = Vo * (20 - Td)/20 + 0,045 * Dm

Example: an imaginary Boss has a swingtimer of 1.5 Seconds and hits for 200 000 unmitigated Damage:

We got no Cooldowns and we have enough Armor to reduce meleehits by 55%, now "Sanctuary" reduces by 15% and weakened blows by another 10%. So we get hit with :200000 * (1 - 0,55) * (1 - 0,15) * (1 - 0,1) = 200000 * 0,45*0,75*0,9 = 60750 damage

the first hit gives us 200000/1,5 * 0.18 = 24000 AP from vengeance

the second hit, hits us 1.5 seconds later the new vengeance (Vn) should then be:

Vo=24000

Td=1,5

D=200000

Vn=24000*(20-1,5)/20 + 0,018 * 200000 = 25800 AP

for the third hit of that kind:

Vn=25800*(20-1,5)/20 + 0.018 * 200000 = 27465 AP
and so on

also, this makes vengeance stop growing at about 36% unmitigated BossDPS
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Re: vengeance question

Postby Ergil » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:14 am

To show, that we can in fact lose vengeance by taking damage we have to consider damaging events of different scale (for example taking a full Decapitate from Lei-Shen and afterwards a tick from his melee ranged ae clouds). Let's model an example, where we first take 3 million dmg (at 0 veng) and then after 10 seconds get a 50k tick.
First after the Decapitat we would be at (3mil * 0.018) = 54k veng.
Now after 10 sec we get the tick and new veng would be (54k * (10/20)) + 0.045 * 50k = 29250
So the ae would lower our veng by ~15k.
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Re: vengeance question

Postby Schroom » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:16 am

with 5.4

as we know,

Vn = Vo * (20 - Td)/20 + 0,018 * D

turns to

Vn = Vo * (20 - Td)/20 + 0,015 * D

my quesition is, does the initial hit still give you:

unmitigated damage / attackspeed(of your enemy) *0.18 ?


does Vengeance still flatten out at ~36% of BossDPS?

does magical still give you 4.5% of the unmitigated magical damage taken as attack power?
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Re: vengeance question

Postby theckhd » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:26 am

No, No, and No.

The steady-state value isn't hardcoded anywhere, it's just based on the formula you posted (Vn = Vo *(20 - Td)/20 + 0.015*D), where D is the boss's unmitigated swing damage. Let's let S be the swing timer (or period), so the boss's unmitigated DPS is D/S.

The steady-state is estimated as follows:
5.3: Steady-state would be 0.018*D/S*20 = 0.36*D/S
5.4: Steady-state would be 0.015*D/S*20 = 0.30*D/S

The first attack always brings you up to at least 50% of the steady-state estimate.
5.3: First attack brings you to 0.5*0.018*D/S*20 = 0.18*D/S
5.4: First attack brings you to 0.5*0.015*D/S*20 = 0.15*D/S

Magical damage just gives 2.5x as much Vengeance as physical damage, so when the physical Vengeance coefficient changes, so does the magical one. Let M be the unmitigated amount of magical damage in an attack:
5.3: Magical damage gives 2.5*0.018*M = 0.0450*M
5.4: Magical damage gives 2.5*0.015*M = 0.0375*M
Last edited by theckhd on Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Bolding is fun
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Re: vengeance question

Postby Schroom » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:28 am

thanks. that's why Questions are there. Because something is unclear. And I want to "know" before imposing something wrong elsewhere. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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Re: vengeance question

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:41 am

Yup. In case it wasn't clear, that "No, No, No" wasn't meant to be critical. You just asked three questions, and I had three identical answers. :P
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