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Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:45 am

Schroom wrote:exactly, so if the last one would be true. Stamina would have a (if even very small) impact on our DPS :> just finding this interesting ^^

Not in normal circumstances. It would only kick in on attacks that you'd have to cheese with Ardent Defender (or similar cooldowns) to survive. Most boss encounters don't have that sort of mechanic.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby econ21 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:33 am

I am sorry for asking a daft question, but in the stats dps calculations why does the value of expertise drop after 7.5%? I had got it in my mind from the holy power/control arguments about gearing for survivability that expertise had a constant value up to 15%. Am I wrong or if not, what changes when we consider dps rather than survivability?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby lythac » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:19 am

Expertise before 7.5% -

Decreases boss chance to dodge.
Increases spell hit (if you have 7.5% hit takes you to spell hit cap)

Expertise after 7.5% -

Decreases boss chance to parry.



Our spell based HP generators generate HP on cast, so hitting or missing doesn't matter for them.

I think.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby boneyjellyfish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:24 am

Does Shield of the Righteous provide the buff on cast or on hit?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:26 am

on cast, iirc
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby boneyjellyfish » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:31 am

Alright, next question. Does Execution Sentence scale with haste? If so, what are the breakpoints?

*edit*

Just checked ElitistJerks and someone mentioned that none of the level 90 talents scale with haste at all:
http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t130889-ret ... ost2204109

That's annoying.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:54 am

Klaudandus wrote:on cast, iirc

Yes, it's on-cast. The damage is the only part that can miss.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Diceone » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:22 am

Our spell based HP generators generate HP on cast, so hitting or missing doesn't matter for them.


If our generators and finishers both give us the benefit on cast what's the benifit to all the hit and expertise we're throwing on our gear? I mean aside from increased crusader procs I'm not sure I see the benefit outside of dps. I could see an increase in SoI/battle healer but that would have to be relatively minor and half of that doesn't even heal ourselves.

Also I thought the only reason for expertise value to drop in dps after 7.5% was that it stopped giving us effective hit stats to judgement, but otherwise was unchanged by going over the 7.5% mark.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:03 am

CS and J are melee attacks, and do not grant holy power if they miss or are dodged/parried.
Grand Crusader grants holy power as soon as you cast AS, thus it does not depend on hit/miss mechanics.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Schroom » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:08 am

so it should be:
Our spell based HP generator
without the s in gernerator(s) as there is only that one. I guess this brought up the confusion :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Diceone » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Thanks for the clarification, missed the spell part.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby econ21 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:41 am

Have you or anyone else done the maths on what damage focused weapon enchants would do for our dps? It's just I was reading a thread on the gear section where someone said they preferred one over colossus and I wondered how much extra dps you would get from such a thing. (Apologies if I missed where this is discussed.)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:47 am

Not yet. tlitp was working on the enchant module last I checked, but I'm not sure how far along it is. Now that everything is on the RPPM system, we can probably use fairly simple approximations rather than doing everything rigorously. It's just a matter of finding the time.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Thels » Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:25 am

econ21 wrote:It's just I was reading a thread on the gear section where someone said they preferred one over colossus and I wondered how much extra dps you would get from such a thing.
That could've been me, and yeah, that was mostly a hunch and somewhat based on:

Someone on the Elitist Jerks forums wrote:Windsong can proc all 3 stats (Crit, Haste, and Mastery) simultaneously. This provides 4500 secondary stats vs Dancing Steel's 1650 Str, with potentially roughly the same up-time. The sheer quantity of additional stats makes Windsong superior if this pans out. If Windsong is changed to permit only 1 proc at a time, Dancing Steel will shoot ahead in comparison.

Windsong appears to be underperforming - proc rate appears to be 1 PPM for all 3 combined, rather than each separately. This varies from how it performed in Beta. Roughly 13% up-time for any given buff, thus 13%^3 (0.2%) chance to have all simultaneously. Dancing Steel should definitely pull ahead. Windsong does still appear to be superior to Elemental Force.

Balhale's modeling shows Windsong 0.7% to 1.4% total DPS behind Dancing Steel this tier.

We still need to test Windsong and Dancing Steel intensively in the game to determine more details of their proc mechanics. Previous enchants have been made/broken based on Ret-specific details such as Censure applications and Seal procs.

Recommend the mat-cheaper Windsong on pre-Raid gear. For Raid weaponry you may upgrade to Dancing Steel.


Now I know that something working out well for Retri might not work out well for Prot. It could be a wrong guess and Windsong being much better for DPS. It's quite safe to say that both of them beat Colossus for DPS output, though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:24 pm

Do you know if anybody has mathed out the difference in damage reduction between the protection 4P bonus versus the increased ShoR uptime from the haste on non-set pieces? I read that the 4P is only 10% of the current reduction amount (so if you have 50% damage reduction it only adds 5% to ShoR.)

My intuition is that it is pretty much 0 difference (~4% more reduction when ShoR is up versus ~4% more uptime of ShoR for me, so I'd take the increased smoothness from the haste over the increased reduction from the ShoR increase), but I would be interested in seeing it "mathed out" if you were looking for a topic for your blog and had any free time, unless it is already covered in the haste vs mastery maths.
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