Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:17 am

Both scale (indirectly) with your attack power.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:41 am

Thx not quite what i was trying to ask, don't think I made a very good job of explaining myself :roll:
Was more trying to find out how much extra healing I'd get from re forging exp>haste down from hard cap to soft cap, and how much Battle Healer might off set total raid healing needed if I went for haste at the expense of mastery.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:51 pm

Not enough information to answer that question. 10- or 25-man? How much average Vengeance AP do tanks have on Elegon? How many in melee range, what sort of time-on-target, etc.? There's just too many variables to give you a precise answer yet.

I've updated everything through the Stat sim. That'll be coming in a few hours, along with the updated Weapon post.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby daishan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:44 pm

Ye sry, guess it is bit of a stretch wanting numbers without giving data.
I've not had chance to pull it yet so I'm not sure on Vengeance AP, we'll probably have myself and 4 others in melee range.
I'm just trying to get a feel for if haste will have a noticeable impact on SoI self healing and Battle Healer raid healing.
I'll try to take note of how much vengeance I get on the attempts we have on Sunday.
After reading your latest blog I think I'll be gearing for haste anyway regardless of it's effect on heals, as we have a couple of dps that are slacking atm so we need all we can get.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby aresius » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:02 pm

Due to the recent confirmation on the importance of hit/expertise, maybe its advisable to swap around some of the recomended gemming? I personaly see the Guardian Amethyst (exp/stam) as a much better gem then the Defender (parry/stam).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:12 pm

There is no "recommended gemming."
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby gibborim » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:38 pm

It looks like they are trying to close the gap between mitigation gearing and avoidance gearing a bit. A hotfix is being added that gives you vengeance when a hit is avoided rather than just refreshing the timer.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:05 am

That change is merely to give you some vengeance if you have an unlucky avoidance streak off the pull.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:16 am

Yeah, that's mostly to smooth out Vengeance so that you can't get stuck at low (or high) values due to a string of avoids. It has exactly 0 impact on gearing mitigation versus avoidance.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:44 am

What are your thoughts on Glyph of Final Wrath? I tried it out and under 20% health between the wrath spells (Holy Wrath and Hammer of Wrath), there's some ridiculous damage going out especially with high vengeance. I'm currently using Final Wrath, Glyph of Battle Healer, and I swap between Glyphs of Holy Wrath and Focused Shield depending on whether or not I'm doing single-target stuff (i.e. Feng, Gara'jal, Galleon) or multitarget (heroics, etc.). I'm thinking something like Stone Guards might be a good place to use Double Jeopardy if you can manage it. The only other good option that I see is Alabaster Shield and that feels mediocre by comparison.

Disclaimer: I haven't done much at all (some tries on Feng and Gara'jal with a friendly guild) in Mogu'shan Vaults so I'm not sure how viable this stuff is in there yet. We start raiding next week when we have enough 90s.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Gab » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:46 pm

For Elegon, because of the stacking debuff he receives through out the fight and higher vengeance than earlier phases Final Wrath seemed fantastic.

I think it's also pretty good on Will. Unless your dps is insane, or you two heal it, then most kills will probably happen during the 4th Titan Gas with 25% damage buff and higher than normal vengeance.

On fights where the mechanics are not helping to boost up the execute range portion of the fight it's not as effective as Alabaster Shield or Focused Shield. But can certainly help you get through those "soft enrage" types of fights.

Theck wrote:Focused Shield and Alabaster Shield are your two best DPS glyphs


Theck wrote:Final Wrath is probably our next-highest DPS glyph thanks to its significant benefit in Execute range.
Last edited by Gab on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Petrus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:57 pm

Ahh I didn't realize he'd edited the initial posts yet - I couldn't get here for a few days, so I hadn't checked that.

Edit: I will still say this about the glyphs: Even if Alabaster Shield is mathematically a DPS increase, it still feels pretty crappy. It's passive, and I understand that, but I rarely-if-ever notice the DPS increase from it, and would rather use Final Wrath all the time and just prioritize that. Maybe I'll get used to it, though. I'll have to try using it some more in place of HoWrath when there's no elementals around to stun, going BH/FW/Alabaster Shield.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:04 am

At the risk of sounding like a total retard, how much more damage intake do we take with soft cap exp vis a vis hard cap?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:09 pm

Rough estimate: about 5% (relative, not absolute).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Durability » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Re weapon choice: Picked up the Horseman's blade today, the use effect damage is negligible - they did a total of less than 4k damage on the boss dummy over their entire duration. That's damage, not dps.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:09 pm

Isn't that an agility weapon anyway? Or was I looking at something else in atlasloot...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:56 pm

but with desirable hit and exp
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:23 pm

And there aren't any str weapons with hit/exp/mastery/haste that would be preferable? (crossing threads a little, since someone mentioned in another thread that HH Slicer is a contender for BiS... not sure how much truth is behind it.)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Sagara » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:06 pm

According to the stat values Theck roughly estimated, the HH sword is ABOVE LFR Elegon's axe, but behind the other two LFR weapons and all three normal weapons.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:20 am

What I've been wondering is if they swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction when they said they wanted us to care more about hit/exp than we had in the past.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Brokenone » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:25 am

Sagara wrote:According to the stat values Theck roughly estimated, the HH sword is ABOVE LFR Elegon's axe, but behind the other two LFR weapons and all three normal weapons.


Is there an easy way to take into account being a human? I'm currently using Ook's, but I got an LFR Elegion that i could use. I'm pretty sure it is worse due to the 1% expertise I lose swapping from a Sword/Mace to an Axe. I believe that 1% Expertise is worth 340 Expertise Rating.

Edit: Never mind, answered my own question. If you click the score and get it to show the larger numbers you can use the stat weight of Expertise=1.9. Multiply by 340 and you get that Ook's is indeed better than LFR Elegion.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:36 am

That's exactly how you account for it. Any weapon that gives you 1% free expertise essentially has an extra 340 expertise of itemization on it
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:00 pm

There has been some confusion about the recent changes to Vengeance that we’d like to clear up. Two things have changed with Vengeance lately:

Oct 8 - Vengeance should now ramp up more quickly. Avoidance will now grant Vengeance based on the average damage of the avoided NPC auto-attack, instead of just refreshing existing Vengeance. This does not apply to enemy special attacks.

There should be an addition to this: Vengeance was also reduced by 10% at the time that hotfix was noted. We apologize for that being missed in the patch notes. Vengeance now accrues at a rate of 1.8% of damage taken, down from 2.0%.

Oct 16 - Fixed an issue with the way that Vengeance is calculated that could cause very large but infrequent spikes of damage to grant much more than the intended amount of Vengeance.

Based on the hits a tank takes, Vengeance attempts to predict what 50% of average Vengeance for that level of incoming damage will be, and bumps the tank straight to that level. However, it previously based that calculation on a 1.5 second attack speed. It now bases the calculation on the enemy’s auto attack speed for auto attacks, and a 60 second interval for special attacks.

Tanks will still get the expected amount of Vengeance from the damage taken. This change just means that the first hit from a slow-attacking boss will bump Vengeance straight up to the expected amount.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6933236387
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Celyn » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:25 pm

I was looking through the sims and I could not find any for

AS+>CS>J>AS

I did see one for

AS>CS>J

Wouldn't we gain more damage at a very low HPG cost prioritizing AS+ above CS and judgement with the recent buff?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - MoP/5.x

Postby Skye1013 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:48 pm

The buff for AS+ should allow you to fit it into an X slot without pushing back CS and J, which ultimately gives you more HoPo (if I'm not mistaken.) Not sure what the % chance of getting a second proc before using up the first is, but I'd imagine it's low enough to not warrant AS+>CS>J>AS.
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