A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Brokenone » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 am

I asked this on EJ several days ago, but didn't get a response. I'm not sure if this is the right thread for it either. Can anyone look at these logs and tell me some things:

Me:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This is the number 1 ranked guy for that fight:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

At the time our gear was very comparable. Nothing out of the ordinary.

His consecrates are hitting for 4 times as much as mine on average. His AS are hitting 3 times harder than mine on average. Can anyone explain these massive differences? He took a bit more damage than me, so possibly had more vengeance, but I can't imagine it would account for that large of a difference.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:46 am

Yeh, i have noticed my numbers are nowhere hitting the same as others... I am normally in the low 30s with luck.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:32 am

If someone has some time on live today, could I request another Holy Wrath data set? The PTR notes are a little odd:
Code: Select all
Protection

    Avenger's Shield now does 6,732 + 31.5% of SP damage, up from 4,488 + 21.0% of SP.
    Guarded by the Light now increases your total Stamina by 25%, up from 15%.
    Holy Wrath base damage doubled.

AS matches my testing, but Holy Wrath doesn't. When we tested it, it was the SP scaling that was doubled, while the base damage was unchanged.

What I'm trying to determine is whether they're really reverting (and heavily nerfing) HW, or (more likely) if this is just a case of them botching a tooltip update.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:46 pm

Code: Select all
    AP       HW
   602     4849
  3412     7406
  5224     9054
  7942    11528
  9714    13140
12066    15281
15154    18091
16918    19697
18612    21238

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:13 pm

Code: Select all
Linear model Poly1:
     f(x) = p1*x + p2
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       p1 =        0.91  (0.91, 0.9101)
       p2 =        4301  (4300, 4301)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.497
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.4624


Confirmed that the tooltip update is wrong, and that the SP scaling was doubled while the base damage was unchanged. We'll want to check it on the PTR later as well just to make sure they didn't reverse it.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:12 am

While I'm aware of this clarification, we should still test RPPM effects for ourselves. As all brand new implementations alike, RPPM may well be glitched. Therefore I'm asking for three distinct data sets.

1. RPPM : scaling with attack speed
Gear : naked, but having equipped a 1H weapon* enchanted with Elemental Force (*avoid those with haste rating). Faster weapons are preferable.
Seal : none.
Buffs : the relevant buff class (DPS DK, Enh Shaman, any Rogue).
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : just autoattacks (no positional requirement).
Goal : at least 3h of autoattacks.

2. RPPM : scaling with spell haste
Gear : naked, but having equipped a 1H weapon* enchanted with Elemental Force (*avoid those with haste rating). Faster weapons are preferable.
Seal : Insight.
Buffs : the relevant buff class (Shadow Priest, Elem Shaman, Balance Druid).
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : just autoattacks (no positional requirement).
Goal : at least 3h of autoattacks.

3. RPPM : delta_t
Gear : naked, but having equipped a FFS enchanted with Elemental Force (use exactly that weapon, not any other alternative).
Seal : Insight.
Buffs : none.
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : only autoattacks and CS (no positional requirement).
Methodology : using a swing timer addon, precisely position the CS casts immediately after autoattacks.
Goal : at least 200 synchronized CS casts.


There you go. Not a pain in the arse, but three. :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:39 am

Since Seal of Insight gives 10% spell haste, I'm going to try to do #2 on Theck while I get some other work done. I can log on an 85 rogue or DK to take care of #1 later.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:54 am

~3 hours of AA with elemental force and FFS: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u ... details/6/

Also note that my weapon broke near the end, so you may want to snip the last 5-10 minutes off to be safe.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:11 pm

theckhd wrote:~3 hours of AA with elemental force and FFS: link

Alright. The observed proc rate is well outside the 95% CI of the theoretical one (no scaling as the null hypothesis), we can be reasonably sure that RPPM scales as intended with spell haste.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:59 am

Updated the front page with another parse request:
Test #50: SotR and dynamic mastery effects
  • Gear: any, preferably low dodge, using one or two trinkets that have mastery on-use effects. Bring a melee-dealing friend with high AP but using either a Dirk or a Club. No dual-wielders.
  • Seal: Insight
  • Buffs: none
  • Talents: Holy Avenger
  • Target: any dummy
  • Attack sequence: regular rotation on the dummy, can stick to just CS/J/AS for holy power and SotR as finisher
  • Methodology: Have your friend auto-attack you from behind while you do your rotation on the dummy. What I'm looking for is two specific situations:
    1. With SotR buff not already active, use the mastery trinket effect, wait 5 seconds, then use Holy Avenger and maintain SotR until both HA and the mastery buff have ended. Continue recording the combat log for another 20-30 seconds afterward.
    2. With SotR buff not already active, use Holy Avenger and begin your SotR maintenance. About 12 seconds into HA's duration (6 seconds left on the buff), use the mastery trinket effect. Continue maintaining SotR as long as possible once HA has ended, and record an additional 20-30 seconds after the mastery buff expires.
  • Goal: One parse for each of the two situations described above. Upload combat log, preferably a separate one for each test. If you have to combine them into one, use some sort of signaling spell in-between so I can properly distinguish the two (i.e. cast Consecration once or twice in-between, and at no other time in the test).


I've been too busy to tackle the other two Elemental Force tests yet. I'll see if I can carve out some time this weekend to do the other two. Unless someone beats me to it, of course!
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:55 am

RPPM testing, round #1:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-k ... details/0/

First test: Does Censure proc RPPM effects? Tested by applying Censure and looking for EF procs after auto-attacks ceased. Result:
Code: Select all
[13:42:43.539] Training Dummy afflicted by Censure from Theck
[13:42:43.539] Theck Seal of Truth Training Dummy 1 (O: 78)
[13:42:43.539] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2969)
[13:42:46.544] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 134)
[13:42:47.142] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2846)
[13:42:49.540] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 135)
[13:42:49.890] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy *1* (O: 6097)
[13:42:52.558] Theck Censure Training Dummy 1 (O: 135)
[13:42:53.199] Theck Elemental Force Training Dummy 1 (O: 2996)


Second test: Does EF proc RPPM effects? Tested by building up HP and self-casting Eternal Flame, first with an Elemental Force weapon (control) and then with Windsong (test). Result: 0 EF procs observed:
Code: Select all
[13:43:28.792] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 14370)
[13:43:28.792] Theck gains Eternal Flame from Theck
[13:43:28.792] Theck casts Eternal Flame on Theck
[13:43:28.792] Theck's Pursuit of Justice fades from Theck
[13:43:31.788] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:32.749] Theck's Physical Vulnerability fades from Training Dummy
[13:43:34.722] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1052)
[13:43:37.771] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:40.807] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1052)
[13:43:43.808] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:46.791] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:49.182] Theck's Seal of Truth fades from Theck
[13:43:49.182] Theck gains Seal of Insight from Theck
[13:43:49.182] Theck casts Seal of Insight
[13:43:49.823] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:52.705] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +0 (O: 1051)
[13:43:55.805] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +1051
[13:43:58.765] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +1052
[13:43:58.765] Theck's Eternal Flame fades from Theck


Multiple Windsong procs observed:
Code: Select all
[13:44:10.431] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +47580
[13:44:10.431] Theck gains Eternal Flame from Theck
[13:44:10.431] Theck casts Eternal Flame on Theck
[13:44:10.431] Theck's Pursuit of Justice fades from Theck
[13:44:10.754] Theck's Windsong is refreshed by Theck
[13:44:12.778] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:15.152] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:15.152] Theck gains Windsong from Theck
[13:44:17.541] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:19.922] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3894
[13:44:22.313] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:22.728] Theck's Windsong fades from Theck
[13:44:24.652] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3894
[13:44:27.102] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +*8021*
[13:44:27.237] Theck's Windsong fades from Theck
[13:44:29.378] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:29.662] Theck gains Windsong from Theck
[13:44:31.853] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:32.348] Theck's Physical Vulnerability fades from Training Dummy
[13:44:34.264] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
[13:44:36.631] Theck Eternal Flame Theck +3893
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:34 pm

Part II - Paladin Multi-Dotting.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-9 ... s=61&e=546

Applied and maintained Seal of Truth on two low-level training dummies for ~8 minutes, naked with 0% haste and an EF-enchanted weapon. Observed 44 procs in 485 seconds, or roughly one proc every 11 seconds, only about ~5.5 procs per minute. Oddly low compared to the expected ~10 PPM. It does not appear that RPPM effects are calculated per-target, at any rate.

Control run: attacked a single low-level training dummy for ~15 minutes to see if the proc rate increased or decreased significantly.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-e ... s=11&e=986
88 procs in 975 seconds, again almost exactly 11 seconds between procs, or 5.4 RPPM. Something seems funny with EF - it may not be the proc rate advertised.

In any event, this test confirms that multi-dotting doesn't increase the proc rate.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:52 pm

Part III - miss/dodge/parry triggers
Setup: L85 Fury warrior, dual-wielding Experimental Specimen Slicer (3.6 speed, no hit/exp) and Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster (3.6 speed, no hit/exp). Naked otherwise, 0% hit, 0%/1% expertise for MH/OH. Attacking a Raider's Training Dummy from the front.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... details/2/

Observed procs on glances, but not a single proc from a missed, dodged, or parried attack in ~10 minutes of auto-attacks. The advertised behavior of being able to proc on missed/dodged/parried attacks is patently false.

Notably, I saw quite a few "double procs," where one glanced melee attack would trigger two Elemental Force procs. So it's clear that the implementation actually rolls twice per melee attack if you have both weapons enchanted while dual-wielding, rather than simply doubling the probability accumulation rate and rolling once.

Also observed quite a few missed EF procs (as in, the effect procced but missed the target), including only one miss in a pair of procs from a single attack. So each proc also makes its own independent hit/miss roll, presumably on the spell hit table.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:13 pm

Live-logging test #47 - L85 rogue (Fein) using dual 397 daggers enchanted with EF. Couldn't reforge all of the haste away, so there's a residual 126 haste rating (0.98%), 11.08% on char sheet (from 10% melee attack speed buff).

Live-log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-tdaohzijsme3d2av
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:34 pm

I've been blanketing the poor Theck with requests, but, alas, it has paid off. Very interesting results.

Three distinct notes :
1. We'll need to test EtFl again, once 5.1 goes live, with the other RPPM options.
2. ElFo's proc chance is peculiar, but at this point I don't think it warrants special testing. Discerning between 5 and 6 RPPM would need a long test (1h+), therefore I suggest to postpone it until 5.1.
3. Regarding the last bit, I'm not really sure what to make of it. Did any "blue" explicitly state that RPPM dynamic effects would/should be triggered on cast ? To me that statement looked conspicuous from the very beginning, thus I've asked you to actually give it a shot. :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:30 pm

I may have been mixing up blue posts. This is the one I was thinking of that mentioned dodge/parry, but it looks like it was only relevant to River's Song and Colossus:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=8#154
[list][*]River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.[*]Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.[*]Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.[*]Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.[*]Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.[*]Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.


The RPPM post doesn't mention dodge/parry at all. So we'll have to wait until 5.1 to test whether that remains the case with the RPPM implementation of RS and Colossus.

I got logged off while doing the melee attack speed test. Is the data collected sufficient? If not, I'll have to try and log another hour or two Friday or Saturday.
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Re:

Postby benebarba » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:08 am

theckhd wrote:Current Parse Requests:

Test #34: Light's Hammer target cap
  • Level: 90
  • Gear: Any
  • Target: A group of exactly N mobs. Mob level is irrelevant.
  • Attack Sequence: Cast a single Light's Hammer once all mobs are in range and grouped up.
  • Goal: Repeat this for N=5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 15.
  • Report: build, AP/SP, upload combat log. Preferably a different log for each N.


Does it matter if they are friendly (healing) vs hostile (damage)? Or should this be tried with both?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:31 am

I was mostly interested in hostile targets, but testing both would probably be a good idea.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:47 am

In the hotfixes for Dec 3, there was a change listed for Holy Wrath (I think...I can't verify from here). Might be worth checking out.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:37 am

Wording was "now scales correctly with attack power and spell power". Definately needs retesting.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Nooska » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:53 am

As opposed to how it worked with 5.1, which broke scaling from AP and SP.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:31 am

My Holy Wrath (no glyphs that interact with the ability) is doing 25740-25741 (does one or the other) damage to a level 90 training dummy right now (18:29 CET, 4th Dec). It deals the same amount of damage to a boss level training dummy.

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:46 pm

jere wrote:In the hotfixes for Dec 3, there was a change listed for Holy Wrath (I think...I can't verify from here). Might be worth checking out.

It was just a bugfix. 5.1 accidentally removed the AP/SP scaling. They just re-instated it, the formula hasn't changed since 5.0.5. Fetzie's data is consistent with the current model (4300+0.91*AP).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:13 am

New test for the SOI proc rate buff:
Test #51: SoI proc rate buff
  • Gear: any
  • Seal: SoI
  • Buffs/Talents/Glyphs/Etc: Any
  • Target: Any dummy
  • Attack sequence: auto-attacks only, faster weapons preferable
  • Goal: Over 100 successful auto-attacks against the dummy.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:57 am

Answered my own question:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7 ... etails/16/

200 melee attacks, 179 SoI procs, 89.5% proc rate. For such a small sample size, that's reasonably good confirmation that we're now at 20 PPM.
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