A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:36 am

Did you have focused shield glyphed?
<edit> And are those damage values you've given the weapon's tooltip damage or your character sheet damage?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:28 am

Character sheet damage, with focused shield glyphed.

weapon used for the naked test was http://www.wowhead.com/item=851
weapon used for the non-naked test was http://www.wowhead.com/item=81061
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:42 am

Got a question, do you want us to use the 1.6 white weapons normally used for testing?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:43 am

My own data:
15868 AP
8512 AP
2052 AP
All using Maki's Mashing Mace

AS seems consistent with a flat 1.5x boost to both base and AP scaling, but since there's a bit of a range and my data set is limited, I"m going to wait for more data to fine tune it. For now we'll assume they just multiplied everything by 1.5.

Holy Wrath's base damage didn't change, but the SP scaling was doubled (was 0.91*SP, is now 0.91*AP) :
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        0.91  (0.9099, 0.9101)
       b =        4300  (4300, 4301)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.3593
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.3461


Censure's formula is consistent with an 80% nerf (was 107+0.094*SP per stack, is now 107+0.094*SP total for all 5 stacks):
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = a*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =     0.09404  (0.09392, 0.09415)
       b =       106.6  (106, 107.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.206
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.262


It looks like SoT was reduced from 12% weapon damage to 2.5%, which is only a 79.17% nerf instead of an 80% one!
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = a*x
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =     0.02449  (0.02385, 0.02512)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 6.749
  R-square: 0.9964
  Adjusted R-square: 0.9964
  RMSE: 1.837
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:45 am

Klaudandus wrote:Got a question, do you want us to use the 1.6 white weapons normally used for testing?

I think I have SoT down now, so it probably doesn't matter about the weapon. But it can't hurt to stick with the 1.6 white weapon that has a narrow damage range.

I mostly need AS data now, the rest seem fairly well-characterized.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:48 am

theckhd wrote:It looks like SoT was reduced from 12% weapon damage to 2.5%, which is only a 79.17% nerf instead of an 80% one!


Good! I feel so much better now that I know that I am 0.83% less nerfed than Blizz said I was gonna be! :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:53 pm

Pyrea wrote:
Pyrea wrote:The following attacks proc Battle Healer:

Melee Swing (obviously)
Crusader Strike
Hammer of the righteous (also splash damage effect)
Shield of the Righteous

Judgement, Avenger's Shield, Holy Wrath, Consecrate and Hammer of Wrath do NOT proc Battle Healer.

Using the crude, yet effective method of standing at a training dummy and seeing what makes a green number appear over a city guard.

Was it 100% proc chance?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Looked like it. I only hit the dummy for a minute or so, but the abilities that caused the heal appeared to do so every time. I fired off HW, Cons, AS and J from outside melee range/with my back turned to eliminate the chance of mistaking a melee swing proc for an ability proc. The ShoR, CS and HotR procs were identifiable by the amount of healing they did (was a different amount to the melee swing) and when I got 4 consolidated hits of HotR I got 4 consolidated heals going out too.

Combatlog incoming, I'll try to find an isolated place with a guard to get the heal.

Here you are. It isn't long, but should have enough info in it to either add weight to my hypothesis that it is a 100% chance, or confirm that we need to do more testing (i.e. I am wrong).
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/oxcqo2z5irvfo8xl/
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:52 pm

updated the spreadsheet with my data. used the white club (1.9 speed)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:05 pm

Using all 3 data sets:
AS minimum damage:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 0.975*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        6113  (6075, 6150)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.884e+004
  R-square: 0.9999
  Adjusted R-square: 0.9999
  RMSE: 48.52

AS maximum damage:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 0.975*x+b
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        7263  (7174, 7352)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.062e+005
  R-square: 0.9997
  Adjusted R-square: 0.9997
  RMSE: 115.2


0.975 is exactly 1.5 times the old coefficient (0.545*AP+0.21*SP = 0.65*AP). The base damage range is consistent with twice the old base damage (4488*1.5=6732) within error, so we can reasonably say that AS was just scaled by a flat factor of 1.5.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:58 am

Is there anything else you need me to test later today?

Also, it felt weird, but does SoI has a hidden threat component? I had an easier time keeping large groups of mobs with SoI than I did with either SoR or SoT.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:08 am

Pyrea wrote:The ShoR, CS and HotR procs were identifiable by the amount of healing they did (was a different amount to the melee swing) and when I got 4 consolidated hits of HotR I got 4 consolidated heals going out too.

Something to try for the future:
In Wrath, you could turn your character sideways enough to where your special attacks could hit a target, but your melee wouldn't. I haven't checked to see if that is still the case since testing in Wrath though.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:08 am

Also, it felt weird, but does SoI has a hidden threat component?

The Healing?


That trick with standing next to the dummy worked, see following log without melee swings
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fia51pqqg0q7t2j4/
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:15 am

Pyrea wrote:
Also, it felt weird, but does SoI has a hidden threat component?

The Healing?


That trick with standing next to the dummy worked, see following log without melee swings
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fia51pqqg0q7t2j4/


I thought they had removed threat from healing. Or maybe I'm just dumb.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:38 am

They removed it from resource generation, but healing threat is still in the game.
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:43 am

Pyrea wrote:They removed it from resource generation, but healing threat is still in the game.


But is this healing threat affected by Vengeance?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:47 am

Well, technically, no threat is affected by Vengeance.
Can't check right now, but the SoI heal is affected by Vengeance, as is GoBH, right?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:48 am

I just find it weird that had easier time having mobs stick to me with SoI on than with SoR or SoT -- which is why I'm wondering if there's a hidden mechanic that is aiding/triggering this effect
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:53 am

IF your SoI heals you for 20k without overhealing (entirely possible with vengeance AP, spell power scales with vengeance AP), the non-RF threat is 10k and the RF threat is 50k.

SoI scales with Spell Power, which is = AP/2
GotBH scales with AP because the healing is dependent on the damage of the strike.

The healing threat that results is then multiplied by the RF factor.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:55 am

Why the hell was I thinking Vengeance and not Righteous Fury? Then again, I dont think I have turned that off in months...
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:58 am

It does make sense. If just re-dug theck's number from the MATLAB thread, and SoR is only 1650 (?) DPS above SoI per target. Meanwhile, SoI produces 17k healing -> 8,5k extra threat. If memory serves, this threat is divided evenly per target.

If Pyrea is correct, RD multiplies this threat by 5.

So SoI should out-threat SoR anywhere between 1 -> 25 targets. That can't be right. Little help?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:04 am

Anybody got that threat level output macro handy?
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Sagara wrote:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

bldavis wrote:we are trying to extend it as long as we can...it just never seems to last very long
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:22 am

In one of my Paladin Threat threads at tankspot I posted it. It might be in one of the older cata or Wrath ones in the Archives section. If you can't find it, I'll post it up from home tonight when I am able to hop on.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:25 am

Just had a funny thought: SoI out-threats SoT.

And I found my mistake: I forgot to apply RF on SoR. So SoI would out-threat SoR for 1 -> 4 targets.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:37 am

jere wrote:In one of my Paladin Threat threads at tankspot I posted it. It might be in one of the older cata or Wrath ones in the Archives section. If you can't find it, I'll post it up from home tonight when I am able to hop on.


Can't seem to be able to find it :/
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