A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:53 am

Thx for the info.
I'm not sure how to calculate in the 3 sec cd on Colossus but considering our 3.6 speed data worked out to 3.6-speed 2H axe: 15.27% +/- 0.69%, ~2.55 PPM, the logs that I did for that had no haste so couldn't of dropped under the 3 sec cd. Just doesn't look to be 3PPM from our data.
Elemental Force at 5PPM, unless they've changed it in the last month that's just not even close to the 3PPM that ppl here have reported.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:25 pm

I suspect they have changed in the past month; we know that Windsong did at least (it went from 3PPM to 1PPM).

I'll have to take a look at our data and see if it agrees with those descriptions. I share daishan's skepticism, but it's also possible that they changed very recently.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:16 pm

I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.
On the upside, critblock chance = mastery

Naked 85 prot warrior:
Code: Select all
block DR = baseBlock + BoD + 1 / (1 / 149.1 + 0.885 / (mastery * 1 / 4.75 ))
block DR = 3 + 10 + 1 / (1 / 149.1 + 0.885 / (17.6 * 1 / 4.75 ))
block DR = 17.07
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby xstratax » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:45 pm

mythor wrote:I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.
On the upside, critblock chance = mastery


What is the Mastery rating conversion for Prot Warriors for Block, like for Paladins its 600 Rating per 1% Mastery (and Mastery = Block as well), knowing that would help me make my add-on much more accurate. (Your code looks like Warrior Mastery -> Block is Mastery%/4.75 or Mastery% * 0.2105, which matches my ~0.2 modifier)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:37 pm

mythor wrote:I am trying to match the paladin avoidance values from this thread with prot warriors, and they all fit pretty good. Thanks for all the work, that makes me feel more confident about my own values.
The only thing that is different is block, for warriors there is a hefty reduction factor.

Your DR equation is exactly the same (postDR=1/(1/149.1+0.885/preDR)). You just have a much worse mastery->block conversion factor than we do.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:21 am

Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:32 pm

benebarba wrote:Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?

I was hoping to collect more data to refine the coefficient values, in particular the Parry one (Dodge seems identical to Cata, and we know that fairly exactly).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:46 pm

It shows how sleepy I was yesterday, I used dodge/parry data gathered from my paladin instead of warrior. Now that I do use my warrior data I see that both parry and dodge grow slower compared to the paladin data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... ZOVE#gid=0
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 3:03 pm

theckhd wrote:
benebarba wrote:Still want parry/dodge rating/percentage info or are the DR coefficients pretty well sorted now?

I was hoping to collect more data to refine the coefficient values, in particular the Parry one (Dodge seems identical to Cata, and we know that fairly exactly).



to the beta!

Here's what I have at the moment, I'll get some more focused on only different values of parry rating:

All are for a level 85 human protection paladin with no buffs. % shown is the character sheet number (unless a '+' is shown, then it is from the tooltip for the rating conversion)

Naked:
Strength: 164
Mastery: 0 (+0%)
Stam: 317
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01 %
Parry: 0 rating, 3.67 %
Block: 21.52%

Ret Geared (strength plate and 2-hander, no dodge/parry):
Strength: 6287
Mastery: 1988 (+11.09%)
Stam: 9034
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 0 rating, 29.01%
Block: 31.84%

Prot Geared(hit/exp soft cap, stam/mastery gemmed):
Strength: 4077
Mastery: 1980 (+11.04%)
Stam: 12,240
Dodge: 1785 rating, 11.83%
Parry: 1469 rating, 25.78%
Block: 31.81%

Prot Geared (all gear reforged to have parry, stam/mastery gemmed):
Strength: 4077
Mastery: 2449 (+13.66%)
Stam: 12,240
Dodge: 1219 rating, 9.82%
Parry: 2588 rating, 29.63%
Block: 34.03%

Above gear, removing pieces to get each of the following:
Strength: 3129
Stam: 9944
Dodge: 913 rating, 8.68%
Parry: 2016 rating, 24.07%

Strength: 2061
Stam: 6572
Dodge: 666 rating, 7.73%
Parry: 1465 rating, 17.80%

Strength: 963
Stam: 3535
Dodge: 445 rating, 6.85%
Parry: 609 rating, 9.81%


Let me know if that helps, or if I need to do it at a constant strength value.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:44 pm

Unfortunately, I was hoping for L90 values... :/

I can use the L85 ones, but I don't know the rating->pct conversion off the top of my head. I want to say it's 256 @ L85, but I honestly don't remember.

<edit> it's 265. Updated the spreadsheet, now there's an 85 version and a 90 version:
85: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=3
90: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=2
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:00 pm

theckhd wrote:Unfortunately, I was hoping for L90 values... :/

I can use the L85 ones, but I don't know the rating->pct conversion off the top of my head. I want to say it's 256 @ L85, but I honestly don't remember.

<edit> it's 265. Updated the spreadsheet, now there's an 85 version and a 90 version:
85: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=3
90: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=2


Sorry about that - I'd have figured out the conversion and posted it, but I just caught your edit.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:17 pm

Playing around with matlab files provided by Theck I find the following for 85 prot war to make the results fit:

Code: Select all
k = 0.956
Cp = 238.7
Cd = 91


k still seems to be the cataclysm value. Cp is not that far off but Cd seems to be pretty different. I think I need more data. Is there more warrior data available somewhere?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:32 pm

Mythor, where is that data from? L85 on beta?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:38 pm

yes
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:42 pm

Using the L85 dodge data for paladins:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 1/(1/C+0.885/x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       65.45  (65.17, 65.72)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0006356
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.00389


So dodge cap is unchanged, and the formula definitely uses k=0.885.

Parry data is giving me:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649

That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby mythor » Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:50 pm

when using warrior 85 beta dodge data:

Code: Select all
d2_try1_fit =
     General model:
     d2_try1_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+k./x)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       88.64  (86.4, 90.87)
       k =      0.9541  (0.9524, 0.9558)

d2_try1_gof =
           sse: 7.1744e-05
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 9
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0028


That gave me the feeling k was still 0.956. So with k fixed:

Code: Select all
d2_try2_fit =
     General model:
     d2_try2_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./x)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       91.09  (90.31, 91.86)

d2_try2_gof =
           sse: 1.2137e-04
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 10
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0035


Parry with k = 0.956

Code: Select all
p1_try3_fit =

     General model:
     p1_try3_fit(x) = 1./(1./C+0.956./(x./243.7))
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       238.7  (238.5, 239)

p1_try3_gof =

           sse: 1.3492e-05
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 14
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 9.8169e-04
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:13 pm

mythor wrote:Playing around with matlab files provided by Theck I find the following for 85 prot war to make the results fit:

Code: Select all
k = 0.956
Cp = 238.7
Cd = 91


k still seems to be the cataclysm value. Cp is not that far off but Cd seems to be pretty different. I think I need more data. Is there more warrior data available somewhere?


Just took some of my own data on beta with a L85 pre-made warrior:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... vSlE#gid=4

Confirmed that your dodge formula is different, and still using the cataclysm k coefficient:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x) = 1/(1/C+0.956/x)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       91.57  (91.06, 92.07)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0001821
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.003606


Parry data shows the same k discrepancy, given the known value of str->parry conversion factor. It's not clear if the parry cap is subtly different than the paladin one, or if we're just limited by noise and a small data set.
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+k/(x/243.9+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       238.4  (236.8, 239.9)
       k =      0.9556  (0.9551, 0.9562)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0001639
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.003551
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:52 pm

theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649

That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?


Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:47 pm

sept 11, if I recall correctly
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Nooska » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 am

Klaudandus wrote:sept 11, if I recall correctly

That is indeed the date they've announced as their expected shutdown (subject to change)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:38 am

benebarba wrote:
theckhd wrote:Parry data is giving me:
Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = 1/(1/C+0.885/(x/a+y))
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       C =       237.2  (234, 240.4)
       a =       243.8  (243.3, 244.3)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 0.0546
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.03649

That doesn't really narrow down C much better than our earlier data sets though. If we knew a exactly that would help - didn't GC give us that number?


Not sure when they'll be shutting down the beta (assuming tuesday), but I can try to get some more data, if you think it'll help. Not sure what kind of spread I can get, or if you have a particular area that's poorly fit I can try to construct sets with numbers in that range.

The more data at the extremes, the better. Here's the surface fit plot I have right now:
Image
The places for improvement would be:

1) high parry rating, low str (i.e. 9%+ parry from rating, <2k str, maybe holy gear reforged/gemmed for parry) - basically to fill out the predrparry axis

2) high parry rating, increasing STR (i.e. take the above gear set and start swapping in prot/ret pieces) - fills out the last side of the square

3) push for maximum parry - get as much high-parry, high-str gear as possible to try and push your overall parry% as high as possible. This could include using the Deathwing stacking STR trinket and parry on-use trinkets. I may try and do a little of this today, if I can find a parry on-use trinket.

4) fill in more data points in the center - not as useful, but every little bit helps
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:22 am

My google-fu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR->Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby benebarba » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:40 am

theckhd wrote:My google-fu is failing me this morning... Can anyone find the blue post that gave us the exact STR->Parry conversion at L85? Or am I misremembering, and there was never such a post?

I'm only finding the 4.2 change to 27% (up from 25) of strength to parry rating.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:57 am

Level 85 Draenei Paladin premade

Holy Gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 165
Mastery: 1139 (+6.35%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 0 rating, 5.01%
Parry: 1839 rating, 11.26%
Block: 27.62%

Half Holy half Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 1738
Mastery: 1112 (+6.20%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 547 rating, 7.26%
Parry: 2643 rating, 20.87%
Block: 27.62%

Adding in some Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 2760
Mastery: 921 (+5.14%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 623 rating, 7.56%
Parry: 2549 rating, 24.54%
Block: 26.50%

More Ret gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 3461
Mastery: 1260 (+7.03%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2587 rating, 27.34%
Block: 28.25%

Ret/Prot gear (all gear reforged to parry, parry gemmed):
Strength: 4234
Mastery: 1146 (+6.39%)
Stam: 7380
Dodge: 920 rating, 8.71%
Parry: 2594 rating, 30.23%
Block: 27.66%


<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:24 am

daishan wrote:<edit> I was going to copy my Pally over again so I could have it at level 85 with all the DS hm gear but the character copy looks to be broken atm.
Want we to use the level 86 copy I have already for the high strength gear sets or will doing it with a Level 86 just make it over complicated?

Can't use 86 data - the STR->Parry conversion will be different, and I don't know the ratio.

Could you give me the naked info for that Dranei paladin though?
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