A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:53 pm

i still got an hour of free time, should be enough to get WoG and EF data using only 4 sets out of the 8 -- been using that strategy as of lately since it seems none of the abilities have changed mechanically, just their scaling.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:14 pm

Yeah, that should be fine. Now that we know how PvP power works, 4 data points should be enough to fit.

Also, could you give me a ballpark estimate of how much armor you have in your max-ilvl gear?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:35 pm

On full pvp gear, i am at about 53,644 armor
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Also, only the naked sets are the only ones that match tooltip expectations for wog and ef
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:11 pm

ok... wtf!? EF and WoG are down this build, a bit...

I will have to do some PVP power sets for Naked and 6 just in case something changed...

EDIT: And the realms are down... FUCK
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:18 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Also, only the naked sets are the only ones that match tooltip expectations for wog and ef

You're misunderstanding me. PvP power will ensure that none of your data (except for possibly the naked set) matches the tooltip. That's not what I'm interested in. I'm looking at the corrected values, after normalizing PvP power out.

In the last few builds, even WoG's naked set didn't match the tooltip, and the PvP-power-corrected values confirmed that it was using EF's base formula. That's what I'm testing for.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:20 pm

I figured that out, but I'd have assumed they would come up with a tooltip that would update itself according to both your SP and your PVP Power.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:36 pm

you had mentioned that the best way to look at how pvp power scales is thru the EF tick, so I concentrated on getting data on those ticks, made it so much easy to get it (prolly 15 secs per pvp power set =P)

So, all data needed is in the spreadsheet, I hope, if not...
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:50 pm

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:32 am

Out of curiosity, where does the "PvP P%" column come from? It's more or less confirming the PVP power -> PvP % conversion factor I got from earlier fits (~265), so if it's from in-game, that simplifies things greatly. I can just use PvP P% directly rather than mucking around with ratings.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:35 am

Yeah, it was from the character sheet.

Still would like to know why our WoG and EF went down, there was no mention of a change to them in the latest build -- although they might have changed how much pvp power rating you need per % from the previous build to this one.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:39 am

Lulz. They nerfed PvP power by a factor of 2, exactly. Fitting using SP, PvP%, and the EF tick data:

Code: Select all
General model:
     f(x,y) = (508+0.0585*x)*(1+0.01*y/c)
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       c =           2  (1.994, 2.007)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 3.58
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.4589


So the PvP power % displayed on the character sheet is off by a factor of 2, but otherwise the old formula for ticks holds. Now to look at EF/WoG data.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:50 am

Fit results:

CS and J match tooltip exactly.
Code: Select all
-----CS-----

cs1_fit =

     General model:
     cs1_fit(x) = 0.6507*(a*x+b)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =        1.25  (1.25, 1.25)
       b =       791.3  (791.2, 791.4)

cs1_gof =

           sse: 4.8595e-004
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 2
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0156

-----J-----

j_fit =

     General model:
     j_fit(x) = a*x+b
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =       1.202  (1.202, 1.202)
       b =       623.1  (623, 623.2)

j_gof =

           sse: 0.0016
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 2
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.0284


WoG is still using the formula shown in EF's tooltip, modified by PvP power (which was nerfed, now gets 1% from ~530 rating).
EF matches tooltip exactly (again, modified by PvP power).
Code: Select all
-----WoG-----

     General model:
     wog1min_sfit(x,y) = (b+0.49*x)*(1+0.01*y/2)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        5263  (5235, 5291)


wog1min_sgof =

           sse: 1.0229e+003
       rsquare: 0.9999
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 0.9999
          rmse: 18.4652


     General model:
     wog1_sfit(x,y) = (b+0.49*x)*(1+0.01*y/2)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =        5832  (5828, 5836)


wog1_sgof =

           sse: 18.1608
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 2.4604

-----EF-----

     General model:
     ef1_sfit(x,y) = (5239+b+0.49*x)*(1+0.01*y/2)
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       b =       10.48  (-3.303, 24.26)


ef1_sgof =

           sse: 244.7959
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 3
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 9.0332


EF ticks also match tooltip, as shown in the previous post.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:42 am

Not sure if you still need it but WoG and EF parts of #38

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0dxcgvq9qh3yi7jo/

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SP 291
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:56 pm


No windsong procs from Holy Prism, as far as I can tell from the combat log. The numbers seem off though; Windsong only procced 12 times in 307 melee attacks.

If it's a 3 PPM enchant, then we'd expect a (3*1.9/60)=9.5% proc rate, and approximately 29 procs.
A 1 PPM enchant would give us an expectation of ~9.7 procs (3.17% proc rate), which is much closer to what we observed.

Unfortunately, at that proc rate, we can't tell if HPr is a proc trigger or not. Including it gives us an expected 10.5 procs, not enough difference from the ~10 we expect just from melees.

I'm wondering if it would make more sense to switch this test around some. Equipping a 3.6-speed (or higher) weapon and standing at range, casting only Holy Prism on the dummy. It would then take ~100 casts (34 minutes) with no proc to reasonably conclude that HPr isn't a trigger. Ideally, use no other attacks so that there's no chance of something else proccing it. Of course, if you observe a proc, you can stop earlier than 100 casts.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:08 pm

daishan wrote:Not sure if you still need it but WoG and EF parts of #38

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0dxcgvq9qh3yi7jo/

Level 86 naked with Hatchet
AP 582
SP 291

WoG definitely benefits from the 5% boost.
EF base heal not affected at all (~4990 min with and w/o SoI)
EF ticks not affected at all (485 with and w/o SoI)
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:08 pm

ok, i'll try
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:43 pm

I've seen a couple of ppl saying Blizz nerfed Windsong proc rate.

I'm going to leave beta logging auto attacks to http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rqrxja1q77c4et4n/ for a hour or 2.

lvl 86
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby daishan » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:10 am

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-49x9tthdgqvqyeac/

Another bunch of Windsong logs just for the hell of it.
Ranseur of Hatred normal speed 3.6 (forgot about the 252 haste on it until I'd already uploaded)

Unless my maths is miles off that gives a 5.14% proc rate from the first log and 5.37% proc rate from the 2nd log.

Just to note you can still have more than one type of proc active at once, but if you have lets say a crit proc active then get another crit proc it'll overwrite the first so you'll never gain 2 of the same proc.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:46 am

The 16004 build is still not out >=/
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:55 pm

16004 data is out for Cons and HotR on the spreadsheet

40 mins of #21 with a 3.6 weapon equipped
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8zmgouclwxa9mcma/
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:56 pm

daishan wrote:I've seen a couple of ppl saying Blizz nerfed Windsong proc rate.

I'm going to leave beta logging auto attacks to http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-rqrxja1q77c4et4n/ for a hour or 2.

lvl 86
Naked using Obsidium Cleaver normal, speed 2.6

daishan wrote:http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-49x9tthdgqvqyeac/

Another bunch of Windsong logs just for the hell of it.
Ranseur of Hatred normal speed 3.6 (forgot about the 252 haste on it until I'd already uploaded)

Unless my maths is miles off that gives a 5.14% proc rate from the first log and 5.37% proc rate from the 2nd log.

Your math is miles off. :)

First log:
36+43+29=108 procs from 2478 melee attacks. Proc rate of 108/2478=4.36%. 95% confidence interval is +/- 0.8%.
Expected proc rate for a 1 PPM enchant with a 2.6-speed weapon is 1*2.6/60=4.33%. Certainly seems to support a 1 PPM mechanic.

Second log:
31+30+28=89 procs from 1675 melee attacks, proc rate of 5.31%. 95% CI is +/-1.07%.
Expected proc rate from a 3.6-speed weapon is 3.6/60=6.0%. Smaller sample size makes this one less reliable, since both logs could support a flat 5% proc rate. However, our earlier tests conclusively showed that this was a PPM mechanic. We can reasonably assume that it's still a PPM mechanic, and as far as I know we've never seen a PPM enchant with half-integer value. The logical conclusion is that this is a 1 PPM enchant.

Ideally, we'd want a longer log with the 3.6-speed weapon, roughly ~5000 hits in total (though the ~1.7k we already have can count towards that total). That should be enough to rule out a flat 5% proc rate. Note that wearing haste gear is perfectly acceptable for this, and in fact is probably ideal (to collect data faster).
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:00 pm

Klaudandus wrote:40 mins of #21 with a 3.6 weapon equipped
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8zmgouclwxa9mcma/

Chance of 0 procs out of 133 triggers at 6% proc rate (1 PPM with 3.6-speed weapon): 0.0267%. It's about 0.11% if it's a 5% flat proc rate. I think we can rule out Holy Prism as a proc trigger. #21 complete.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:31 pm

Klaudandus wrote:16004 data is out for Cons and HotR on the spreadsheet

Fits:
Code: Select all
-----HotR(phys)----

hotr1_fit =

     General model:
     hotr1_fit(x) = 0.6507*a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =         0.2  (0.1998, 0.2002)

hotr1_gof =

           sse: 0.3478
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 6
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.2407

----HotR(nova)----

nova1_fit =

     General model:
     nova1_fit(x) = a*x
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.3498  (0.3496, 0.3501)

nova1_gof =

           sse: 1.2501
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 6
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.4564

----Cons----

cons1_fit =

     General model:
     cons1_fit(x) = a*x+b
     Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       a =      0.1799  (0.1798, 0.18)
       b =       103.2  (102.7, 103.7)

cons1_gof =

           sse: 0.3965
       rsquare: 1.0000
           dfe: 5
    adjrsquare: 1.0000
          rmse: 0.2816

HotR is as the tooltip claims.

Is my memory going batty, or does Consecration grant 10 ticks? If so, it just got significantly buffed (old: 690+1.2*SP, new: 1027+1.8*SP)

<edit> like, holy shit buffed. It's now our second-hardest hitting attack behind AS at 50k Vengeance, and it scales better with AP. That's going to shake some things up.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:47 pm

We got superglue?
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