A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fenris » Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:03 am

Test #2
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9xqx ... etails/42/

Lvl 86 human
Weapon:Hatchet 12-24dmg,2.5speed)
Ap:572 Sp:264
Hit & Exp:0%
Tested hitting a lvl85 dummy and "cleaving" on 2 boss-level ones
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Kerriodos » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:55 am

Test #12 uploaded. There's some noise from testing the combat log at the start--never logged before--and later on some further testing with Censure refreshing and Avenging Wrath. I linked the relevant portion from the expression editor below.

Test #12: Avenging Wrath Relevant Section

Gear: Any
Seal: Truth
Glyphs: Any
Target: Any (Level 70 Target Dummy)
Attack Sequence: Stack Censure on a low-level dummy, cast a Cons, interrupt any attacks, wait ~3s, cast AW.
Report: Consecration ticks are updated on-the-fly, but Censure ticks are not.

Extra stuff: I did an extra test which shows that if Censure is APPLIED with Avenging Wrath up, the damage is buffed, and continues to tick at the increased damage beyond the duration of Avenging Wrath. Refreshing the Censure stack causes it to recalculate the damage. This applies both ways (unbuffed Censure refreshed with Avenging Wrath, ticks goes up; buffed Censure refreshed without Avenging Wrath, ticks go down).

Just a note for any tests requiring Seal of Truth: the minor glyph, Glyph of Seal of Blood, is currently bugged and stops your SoT from stacking Censure. Make sure to take it off.
Last edited by Kerriodos on Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

Postby Jaannaa » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:16 pm

theckhd wrote:
Jaannaa wrote:Test 17
Gear: As listed. 3048 int, 0 crit rating. ( There's also 931 haste and 469 mastery)

Attacks: Just autoattack.
Build:5.0.1 (15508)
AP: 563
SP: 3202
Spell crit: 4.70%
Seal: Truth
Toon level: 85
Dummy level: 60

WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7vnegr6j1qolwg6p/

800 melee attacks (766 hit, 34 crit, 4.44% crit rate)
800 seal procs (753 hit, 47 crit, 6.24% crit rate)

What was your melee crit chance? The 95% confidence interval for 4.7% spell crit is [3.23% 6.17%], so the observed SoT crit rate doesn't seem to match your spell crit. The fact that you're getting 4.44% crit on melee attacks is a problem too - we won't be able to tell the difference between 4.4% (melee crit) and 4.7% (spell crit) with a sample size of 800. We need spell crit to be ~10% higher than melee crit to see the difference.


Melee crit was 0.01%. I'll try to find a time where the SW level 85 dummies aren't occupied to retest.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:31 pm

Fenris wrote:Test #2
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9xqx ... etails/42/

Lvl 86 human
Weapon:Hatchet 12-24dmg,2.5speed)
Ap:572 Sp:264
Hit & Exp:0%
Tested hitting a lvl85 dummy and "cleaving" on 2 boss-level ones


Perfect. 104 HotR casts, 312 Nova hits with no observed misses. HotR only performs one combat roll per cast.

Damage range is [17 19], which seems to agree with 15% unnormalized weapon damage:
0.15.*([12 24]+572/14*2.5) = [17.1 18.9]

Oddly, the tooltip says 20% weapon damage. We'll have to do further testing, particularly with a different weapon speed.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:01 pm

Kerriodos wrote:Test #12 uploaded. There's some noise from testing the combat log at the start--never logged before--and later on some further testing with Censure refreshing and Avenging Wrath. I linked the relevant portion from the expression editor below.

Test #12: Avenging Wrath Relevant Section

Gear: Any
Seal: Truth
Glyphs: Any
Target: Any (Level 70 Target Dummy)
Attack Sequence: Stack Censure on a low-level dummy, cast a Cons, interrupt any attacks, wait ~3s, cast AW.
Report: Consecration ticks are updated on-the-fly, but Censure ticks are not.

Excellent, thank you.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Kerriodos » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:16 pm

Test #11: Grand Crusader

Gear: Naked (0% hit/exp). Using Heroic Souldrinker only.
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: Any
Target: boss-level dummy
Attack Sequence: Cast CS repeatedly
Goal: Stop after 120 CS casts (~9 min)
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k1ypmw9yud1q9pi4/

Game build: 5.0.1.15508
Level: 85 Blood Elf Paladin
AP: 1,055
SP: 509
Weapon Tooltip Damage: 2,862 - 5,315
Weapon Speed: 2.6
Weapon Name: Souldrinker (Heroic)
Target Level: 93; boss-level dummy
Glyphs:
- Consecration
- Hammer of the Righteous
- Holy Wrath
- Fire from the Heavens
- Winged Vengeance
- Contemplation

128 casts total; went a little over just to make sure I didn't count wrong. The boss dummies are apparently hard-coded at 93, so this may not be exactly what you were looking for, but hell, I had 10 minutes to spare.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:42 am

Kerriodos wrote:Test #11: Grand Crusader
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k1ypmw9yud1q9pi4/

Filtered log. Not getting at least one GrCr proc from 68 non-connects has a probability of ~2e-7. Reconfirmed to proc only from triggers that actually connect.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:18 am

Right, the tests designed to deal with the dynamic effects are a bit messy right now. We're interested in :
A. Physical triggers for Colossus/Dancing Steel/Flowing River. They should all behave the same. Eligible triggers : CS, SotR. Test J/AS too, for oddities.
B. Proc chance for C/DS/FR. Each of them must be tested separately. Use only AA as trigger. Stop after at least an hour for each of the three.
C. HW as trigger. Locate a group of stacked (i.e. 3+) low-lvl dummies. Use only AA (+SoInsight) and HW as triggers. Use Windsong as dynamic effect. Stop after 100 HW casts.
D. Repeat B for Elemental Force and Windsong. Again, only AA.
E. Test EForce for buffs/debuffs. Bring a Warrior/Rogue for -armor/ph.vul/sp.vul.

A-E replace/modify the existing tests, marked as #3-6. What is currently marked as #10 still stands, though.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby culhag » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:56 pm

Test #14: Confirmation of J/AS as spells
Hit : 3.00% (307 rating) (Spell miss chance 3.00%)
Exp : 0.00%
Weapon used : Souldrinker (heroic)

I saw misses of Judgment, AS, Censure, and Consecration.

Log : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kpbfv54a3lgiguh2/
I continued testing for a while because there were very few misses and I was afraid maybe I had actually 2.999% hit chance, or something. I forgot about Consecration for the first 10 minutes. Cons was hitting two lvl85 dummies.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:14 pm

Something seems wrong in your parse... you're seeing misses with melee/cs, which shouldn't be the case if you're hit-capped for melee attacks.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby culhag » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:26 pm

I hadn't paid attention to melee, but well, that's what I got.

I didn't change any gear during the test. I'm lvl 85 and I just double checked that the dummy is lvl 85.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/Edawan/WoW/WoWScrnShot_040312_021836.jpg
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 pm

I think I know what's happened. Your observed miss rate is about 1.87%. Combined with your 3% hit, that's close to 5%, which is the melee miss chance against an 85 in wrath/cata.

Hypothesis: dummies haven't been updated to use the new miss/dodge/parry caps yet.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Cogglamp » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:39 am

I'll work on some of the requested tests this weekend. I have some downtime so I'd like to help out.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:22 am

Build: 5.0.1 (15508)

Actor in both is Lakhesis.

Test 10 - EF/Cons as dynamic triggers
Gear: 378 Mandible of Beth'tilac enchanted with Heartsong. No proc trinkets or other effects.
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: None
Target: isolated level 60 dummy (the ones on the roof of the Warrior trainer in the Valley of Honor, Orgrimmar)
Attack sequence:
1) 1x HotR -> heartsong proc'd immediately -> 1x EF (stop, heartsong proc'd a second time during the hot).
2) Autoattack + 51 consecrates. No procs.
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/75boe5yqb855krr8/



Test #15: Expertise->Spell Hit behaviour
Gear: 17.16% expertise (1758 rating), 0% hit (0 rating). Weapon = 410 Hand of Morchok (2.6 speed). Windwalk & 359 Heart of Rage (str proc) were only proc abilities on gear.
Seal: Truth
Glyphs: Contemplation (minor)
Target: Isolated 85 dummy in the cage building by the riding trainer in Valley of Honor, Org. Attacking from front, but from outside auto-attack range (wasn't sure how you wanted it).
Rotation: Cons > Judge > AS (I blame any sloppiness on lack of OmniCC ;) .. went up to 100 judgments)
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2peew0x6iaw427gf/
TL;DR Summary: 0 misses.


Lemme know if I cocked anything up and I'll repeat them if necessary. As an aside, has anyone actually found a level 88 target dummy anywhere? Orgrimmar is great for groups of 3x 85 dummies (virtually always in use tho), isolated 85 dummies & isolated 60/70/80 dummies, but I haven't found anything between 85 & Boss level.
Last edited by lakhesis on Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:59 am

lakhesis wrote:Build: 5.0.1 (15508)

Actor in both is Lakhesis.

Test 10 - EF/Cons as dynamic triggers
Gear: 378 Mandible of Beth'tilac enchanted with Heartsong. No proc trinkets or other effects.
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: None
Target: isolated level 60 dummy (the ones on the roof of the Warrior trainer in the Valley of Honor, Orgrimmar)
Attack sequence:
1) 1x HotR -> heartsong proc'd immediately -> 1x EF (stop, heartsong proc'd a second time during the hot).
2) Autoattack + 51 consecrates. No procs.
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/75boe5yqb855krr8/
TL;DR Summary: 0 misses.


Confirms that EF and HammerNova cause spell-proc triggered effects, but that Cons does not.


lakhesis wrote:Test #15: Expertise->Spell Hit behaviour
Gear: 17.16% expertise (1758 rating), 0% hit (0 rating). Weapon = 410 Hand of Morchok (2.6 speed). Windwalk & 359 Heart of Rage (str proc) were only proc abilities on gear.
Seal: Truth
Glyphs: Contemplation (minor)
Target: Isolated 85 dummy in the cage building by the riding trainer in Valley of Honor, Org. Attacking from front, but from outside auto-attack range (wasn't sure how you wanted it).
Rotation: Cons > Judge > AS (I blame any sloppiness on lack of OmniCC ;) .. went up to 100 judgments)
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/2peew0x6iaw427gf/
TL;DR Summary: 0 misses.


Confirms that you can cap spell hat only through expertise - i.e. that expertise above 3% (7.5% for boss) continues to contribute to spell hit. We'll want to retest this on a level+3 mob at some point just to make sure, but we'll wait until we're sure the new hit/exp mechanics are properly implemented first.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:26 pm

Appending new tests :

1. Sacred Shield as trigger for dynamic effects.
The setup is exactly the same as here (HS; low-lvl dummy; use AAs and SoI freely), but with a few key differences :
a. use only CS as HPG (sorry, no J or GrCr/AS as we want to avoid parasites).
b. use SS as finisher.
Stop after 20 SS casts (~5 mins) or after the first HS proc.

2. Holy Prism as trigger for dynamic effects.
Use a low-lvl dummy (the debuffs are irrelevant). Use only AA (+SoInsight) and HPrism. Use Heartsong as dynamic effect. Stop after 20 HPrism casts (~7 mins) or the first HS proc.

3. Scaling with haste/crit for EF's over-time effect.
a. use a crit/haste/Int-heavy gear (basically Holy-oriented).
b. use a low-lvl dummy (the debuffs are irrelevant).
c. use only AA (+SoInsight), CS as HPG, 1-HoPow EF (important : do not refresh EF, cast it at every 30 secs).
d. ask a Mage/Shaman friend to provide Bloodlust-type effects (one time only). This step is optional, but highly encouraged.
e. stop after 5 EF casts (~3 mins) or after the first critical tick.
f. report total spell haste/crit (from character panel) and upload the log.

4. Divine Purpose.
Use a boss-level dummy and attack it from the front. Be naked (0 hit/exp). Use AA (+SoInsight), CS+J+GrCr/AS as HPGs, SotR as finisher. Stop after 100 SotR casts (in total, connected or not) and upload the log.

5. Censure as trigger for dynamic effects.
Use a weapon enchanted with Heartsong. Use a low-lvl dummy (the debuffs are irrelevant). Use only AA + SoTruth. Stop after 2 mins or the first HS proc.



@ Theck : Add some clarifications to the leading posts, please.
a. any of the listed enchantments works for test #3.
b. neither component of Cons (i.e. casts/ticks) is a trigger for dynamic effects.
c. both components of EF (cast/ticks) are triggers for dynamic effects.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:43 am

Censure as a trigger for dynamic effects

Build: 5.0.1 (15544)
Gear: 378 Mandible of Beth'tilac w/Heartsong chant & naked
Target: Level 60 dummy, from behind (roof of warrior trainer in valley of honor, org)
Rotation: Auto-attack with seal of truth
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8m0xiaf6omvdtlpp/
Results: Heartsong proc'd within 10-20s

---

Not 100% sure what you want with the SS trigger - given that SS uses mana, not holy power, it's a spamable ability until we go OOM. Or is there a change coming in a new build?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:39 am

4. Divine Purpose.

Build: 5.0.1 (15544)
Gear: 378 Mandible of Beth'tilac (heartsong) & 397 Blackhorn's Mighty Bulwark. 0 hit & expertise.
Target: Boss level dummy in warrior trainer, valley of honor, org. Attacking from front.
Glyphs: Focused Shield
Seal: Insight
Rotation: CS > Judge > AS, ShoR on 3x HoPow.
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ibd2rp4yf38b0t5q/
Notes: Boss level dummy is definitely level 93 atm, I know of no 88 dummies so I hope it's still ok. Some of my brain leaked out my ear with all the miss/dodge/parry's, so my rotation may be sloppy & I erred on the heavy side (108 ShoRs total).

It seemed like there was a disproportionately high number of double/triple DivPurpose procs.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:14 am

Test #18: Seal of Insight triggers

Build: 5.0.1 (15544)
Actor: Lakhe
Weapon/Shield: Sunstrider Axe (3.5 speed, white 1h axe, 6-13 damage & 2.85 dps) + Shard of Torment
Seal: Insight
Glyphs: Contemplation (minor)
Target: Level 60 dummy (roof of warrior trainer in valley of honor, org). Faced side-> target's back to prevent Auto Attack
Rotation:
- 10x CS (proc'd seal)
- Contemplation
- 10x HoR (proc'd seal)
- Contemplation
- 2x SotR (via pooled HoPow & DivPurpose proc, proc'd seal)
- Contemplation
- 10x AS (didn't proc seal)
- Contemplation
- 10x J (didn't proc seal)
- Contemplation
- 10x Holy Wrath (didn't proc seal)
- Contemplation
- 2x Consecrate (didn't proc'd seal)

Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u0b4 ... 22Lakhe%22

Notes:
- 6,325 attack power
- 3,144 spell power
- 0 haste, 0 hit, 1.30% expertise, 0.01 melee crit & 0.17% spell crit
- Character info gives 3.5 attack speed, 1588-1595 damage & 454.63 dps
- Forgot the premade toon's damn belt had expertise on it :roll: ... meh, I assume it doesn't matter.
- You specified a 2h weapon, but you also wanted SotR & AS so I assumed an unusually slow 1h+shield is an acceptable alternative.
Last edited by lakhesis on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:27 am

lakhesis wrote:Not 100% sure what you want with the SS trigger - given that SS uses mana, not holy power, it's a spamable ability until we go OOM. Or is there a change coming in a new build?

Even easier to test. Use AA (+SoI) and go wild.

lakhesis wrote:It seemed like there was a disproportionately high number of double/triple DivPurpose procs.

Filtered log. There's nothing out of ordinary, the DivP procs aren't "clustered". It's clear that finishers act as triggers on cast, rather than on connect.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:44 am

Test #19: Seal of Righteousness triggers

Build: 5.0.1 (15544)
Actor: Lakhe
Weapon/Shield: Sunstrider Axe (3.5 speed, white 1h axe, 6-13 damage & 2.85 dps) + Shard of Torment
Seal: Righteousness
Glyphs: Contemplation (minor)
Target: Level 60 dummy (roof of warrior trainer in valley of honor, org). Faced side-> target's back to prevent Auto Attack Rotation:
- Contemplation
- 1x CS (proc'd seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x HoR (proc'd seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x Judgment (didn't proc) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x SotR (via pooled HoPow, proc'd seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x AS (didn't proc seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x Holy Wrath (didn't proc seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation
- 1x Consecrate (didn't proc'd seal) -> wait ~3s
- Contemplation

Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/4w0o ... 22Lakhe%22

Notes:
- 5,905 attack power
- 2,934 spell power
- 0 haste, 0 hit, 0 expertise, 0.01 melee crit & 0.17% spell crit
- Character info gives 3.5 attack speed, 1483-1490 damage & 424.63 dps
- Ditto with the slow 1h+shield rather than 2h.
- Took off more clothes to get rid of expertise so stats are slightly lower than last time. Oooooh yeah...
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby lakhesis » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:11 am

Sacred Shield as trigger for dynamic effects

Actor: Lakhesis
Build: Build: 5.0.1 (15544)
Gear: 378 Mandible of Beth'tilac enchanted with Heartsong. No proc trinkets or other effects.
Seal: Insight
Target: isolated level 60 dummy (the ones on the roof of the Warrior trainer in the Valley of Honor, Orgrimmar)
Report: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/cqbv ... akhesis%22
Cast sequence:
- Start Auto attack -> Sacred Shield. Refreshed on expiry for about 5 minutes. Then spammed SS nonstop for about another minute after that while still auto-attacking. No procs.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:29 am

lakhesis wrote:Sacred Shield. Refreshed on expiry for about 5 minutes. Then spammed SS nonstop for about another minute after that while still auto-attacking. No procs.

Not getting at least one HS proc from 54 casts has a probability of ~1e-7. Fairly conclusive.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:36 am

I think I have the front page updated to this point. Let me know if I missed anything, and thank you for all the testing lakhesis!
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Yelena » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:42 pm

lakhesis wrote:It seemed like there was a disproportionately high number of double/triple DivPurpose procs.

There is a thread speculating on this over on the official forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4362519504

The general theory is that it's operating at 15% per charge of Holy Power consumed. Even in the current build it's still acting that way. Doubtful if it's worth testing until we know for certain it's a bug or intended.

I know from my own experience (can't provide any logs as evidence, sadly) that I've seen 5+ Divine Purpose procs in a row, on multiple occasions. The probability of that happening once off a flat 15% chance is pretty absurd, let alone multiple times, within ~60 minutes of beating on a dummy.
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