4.1's tough talent choices

[Jeremoot]

A few things you may want to consider.

1) Rule of Law vs Last Word

Why? With the increased minimum time between wogging, and the inability to cast back to back WoGs, Rule of Law loses a little of its thrill. Especially when compared to a low health life saving crit. Also, going with a Last Word build allows you to pick up both Reckoning and Grand Crusader easily, which brings me to my next point of interest.

2) Reckoning vs Grand Crusader

Many of us drop a point from one of these to get Divine Guardian. At 2% hit and 10 expertise, dropping a point from GC reduces the probability of GC proccing in 3 crusader strikes by 18.34%. I'd also *assume* that GC-procced AS are better than HoW in execute range.

Where will this rank GC against Reckoning for single target? Only time will tell. Or Theck.

[theckhd]

I don't particularly care for Last Word. I think the 15% crit from Rule of Law is more effective than 60% crit under the specific circumstance that I'm below 35% health. For the most part, I'm not waiting until 35% to cast WoG, I'm using it reactively any time I drop below 50-60% or when I know a healer's going to be moving. RoL is also a potent threat/aoe talent, so I doubt the cooldown on WoG will make Last Word that much more attractive.

With Holy Power on Grand Crusader procs, I expect Grand Crusader's value to increase significantly. I'm not sure if it'll be enough to eclipse Reckoning, but the sims will clarify that well before 4.1 hits live servers, so it's not worth stressing about.

[Koatanga]

The way I see it, GC can help to assure you have 3 holy power for a well-timed WoG, while reckoning is just just a redundant threat ability. Easy choice for me.

[fuzzygeek]

reckoning is just just a redundant threat ability.

What is the effect of Reckoning on WindWalk procs, I wonder?

[Linkie]

I don't particularly care for Last Word. I think the 15% crit from Rule of Law is more effective than 60% crit under the specific circumstance that I'm below 35% health. For the most part, I'm not waiting until 35% to cast WoG, I'm using it reactively any time I drop below 50-60% or when I know a healer's going to be moving. RoL is also a potent threat/aoe talent, so I doubt the cooldown on WoG will make Last Word that much more attractive.

With Holy Power on Grand Crusader procs, I expect Grand Crusader's value to increase significantly. I'm not sure if it'll be enough to eclipse Reckoning, but the sims will clarify that well before 4.1 hits live servers, so it's not worth stressing about.

You'd also have to give up the 15% speedboost of Pursuit of Justice and get a sub-par enchant for an 8% speedboost instead.

[tlitp]

What is the effect of Reckoning on WindWalk procs, I wonder?

Default gear set (avg. ilvl 359), WoG-based framework (2/2 EG) with CS as HPG :

Code: Select all

ph=physical hit (%)
exp=expertise (skill)
ww.dodge=time-averaged (bonus) dodge chance (%)

              ww.dodge@2/2Reck   ww.dodge@0/2Reck
ph=0,exp=0      0.7929             0.7272
ph=8,exp=0      0.8615             0.7913
ph=8,exp=26     0.9467             0.8689

[fuzzygeek]

Thank you tlitp. That is surprising.

[Téuntjûh]

I'm still wondering why I never hear anyone talking about dropping <Judgements of the Just> and Vindication.
I believe these are very nice talents for 10 mans, but in de 25 mans I'm raiding we always got other classes which apply these buffs. This makes the talents useless? Or am I missing something.

[Fetzie]

I'm still wondering why I never hear anyone talking about dropping <Judgements of the Just> and Vindication.
I believe these are very nice talents for 10 mans, but in de 25 mans I'm raiding we always got other classes which apply these buffs. This makes the talents useless? Or am I missing something.

What if they die?

[Téuntjûh]

They don't. Normally we got 1 - 2 people dead @ the end of a fight.
Buffs stay up whole fight 95% fights.

[theckhd]

1) It doesn't cost us a GCD to apply these buffs, they get put up automatically as part of our rotation. Most (every?) other class has to spend a GCD to put up at least one of the two.
2) Redundancy is a good thing in case people die. Being self-sufficient is always nice.
3) What else would you take?

[Blackharon]

1) It doesn't cost us a GCD to apply these buffs, they get put up automatically as part of our rotation. Most (every?) other class has to spend a GCD to put up at least one of the two.
2) Redundancy is a good thing in case people die. Being self-sufficient is always nice.
3) What else would you take?

Adds to the list:
4) Most fights come with adds. What if your debuffer is on another target

[theckhd]

Another good point. There are a number of situations where you may be tanking mobs away from the rest of the group (Omnitron, Magmaw HC, Maloriak HC, Nefarian, Council of the Four Winds, Al'akir, V&T HC(?), Cho'gall). Especially on heroic modes, it doesn't make sense to force another player to lose DPS time on the boss to do something you're perfectly capable of by speccing properly.

[Jeremoot]

Generally I feel if I CAN bring a buff to the raid, I should, especially when they're buffs that I can automatically apply without thinking about.

[Zibey]

The only change to my build I am concidering is moving one point from Reckoning to GC. I might also wonder about consecration talent, as I do happen to have quite many empty GCDs lately - esp. when tanking with SoI (which in turn provides me with enough mana for these more expensive fillers). I dont really know where to take them from, so I dont think I will ever go for it.

So yeach - if we talk tough choices, reck vs. GC seems like the only one, and it should be resolved with sims.