CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Saltycracker » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:10 pm

To be honest WoG spam was pretty overpowered especially that we could double dip threat and survivability into one ability with a guaranteed resource. If this is an intended change, this might make being hit capped help us out in two ways:

- Less misses from our other 9's (Judgement, Avenger's Shield, Holy Wrath)
- Using HoTR to generate HoPo -> Self heals and Absorbs. In this, hit is actually a survival/mitigation stat until melee capped.

Although this method makes our two piece bonus almost worthless, getting hit capped ends up helping our threat and survival.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:18 pm

I would actually aim for Exp. Soft cap, before hit cap


It's half the item budget allocation, compared to hit, and provides twice the benefit

~121 expertise = 1% less Dodge, Parry
~121 Hit = 1% less miss


~481 expertise (with glyph) = 6.5/7% less Dodge, 7% less parry, or a ~45% reduction in missed/dodged/parried attacks (29%->15%)


I'm with most people saying hit cap is likely not necessary, I disagree currently about expertise -- 2% avoidance for a 14% reduction in missed Holy Power generation..

From a standpoint of a tank who has no Hit/Expertise currently (beyond glyph), and typically no MD or TotT in raids, 14% reduced misses/parries/dodge for 480 points sounds fairly good, even if it costs me ~2% avoidance.. it would hopefully better stabilize my threat for the first 30 seconds where it matters
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Saltycracker » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:24 pm

Sur-Pseudo wrote:I would actually aim for Exp. Soft cap, before hit cap


Sounds great, but HoTR, Judgement, Avenger's Shield and Holy Wrath already can't be dodged or parried, and expertise provides no benefit to those abilities.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Aerron » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:35 pm

Saltycracker wrote:
Sur-Pseudo wrote:I would actually aim for Exp. Soft cap, before hit cap


Sounds great, but HoTR, Judgement, Avenger's Shield and Holy Wrath already can't be dodged or parried, and expertise provides no benefit to those abilities.


True, but if the issue is generating HoPo, only one of those abilities is relevant. And honestly, I'm not terribly concerned about AoE tanking atm, but more concerned about how this affects single-target (Boss) tanking, where I'm using CS instead of HoTR anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand, CS can still be dodged or parried.

So if on single, hard hitting targets Exp will get me HoPo with the least amount of CTC loss ... that's the way I'm going.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Redleg » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:40 pm

I've noticed a potentially related bug, but have only done target dummy testing. It seems if HotR misses the primary target, the entire aoe effect just doesn't even occur. I thought that was something they specifically addressed in a hotfix a while back.

I also read a post where someone mentioned that CS is still generating holy power on immune mobs/players. I haven't tested this myself however. If that is true, it's of course not a real help for us, but it would seem to suggest that something isn't working as intended. Pure speculation of course.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby ceric » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:46 pm

I'm actually less concerned about my holy power ability as I am keeping my Holy Shield from falling off.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Redleg » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:47 pm

Well, it's official now:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046735514?page=2#29

Thanks for the reports, however this is intended.

Holy Power should not be generated on Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss.


Odd though that the blue poster mentioned block though.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby vexryn » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:53 pm

ceric wrote:I'm actually less concerned about my holy power ability as I am keeping my Holy Shield from falling off.



Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how far I have to put hit/expertise back onto my gear just to avoid having too many situations where my Holy Shield is falling off and I *still* don't have 3 holy power at that point.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:55 pm

Hahahaha thread already locked.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:06 pm

Redleg wrote:Well, it's official now:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046735514?page=2#29

Thanks for the reports, however this is intended.

Holy Power should not be generated on Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss.


Odd though that the blue poster mentioned block though.


raaaaaaaage

Ok so does this mean Hit/Exp have relevant values as EHP stat due to being able to use HoPo on WoG
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Aerron » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:10 pm

At the least, it makes being Human more attractive.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby vexryn » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:10 pm

Sabindeus wrote:
raaaaaaaage

Ok so does this mean Hit/Exp have relevant values as EHP stat due to being able to use HoPo on WoG



And reducing the risk that holy shield drops before you get to your next 3 holy power to refresh it. :/
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:13 pm

vexryn wrote:
Sabindeus wrote:
raaaaaaaage

Ok so does this mean Hit/Exp have relevant values as EHP stat due to being able to use HoPo on WoG



And reducing the risk that holy shield drops before you get to your next 3 holy power to refresh it. :/

That's not a huge deal, you can always refresh Holy Shield with less than 3 holy power, since it has no effect on the duration.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 pm

On the other hand, chosing between caps is fun and interesting again! Do I want to be block capped, or hit/xpt (possibly hard) capped? After all, it'll take 56 Expertise to remove dodges!

For content that matters I'm going to keep being block capped. Trash and Farm Bosses? We'll see.

What a stupid, stupid way to address the problem. I'll generally give Blizz the benefit of the doubt, but this is gobsmackingly horrible.
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Re: CS/HotR not generating HoPo when missed, parried or dodged

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 pm

vexryn wrote:Follow-up question though - can I generate a holy power from HotR as long as it hits ANY target, the physical hit or the nova?

No, only the physical component generates holy power, as far as I'm aware.

Redleg wrote:I've noticed a potentially related bug, but have only done target dummy testing. It seems if HotR misses the primary target, the entire aoe effect just doesn't even occur. I thought that was something they specifically addressed in a hotfix a while back.

This is not a related bug, that's how HotR has worked since beta, including all of 4.x.

Redleg wrote:Well, it's official now:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046735514?page=2#29

Thanks for the reports, however this is intended.

Holy Power should not be generated on Dodge, Parry, Block, Miss.


Odd though that the blue poster mentioned block though.


......
What the fuck. Seriously. I'm betting this CM is wrong, because otherwise this is the most obnoxious undocumented change ever. Holy power is already a shit system, it doesn't need to be made worse. Guess it's time to level an alt that doesn't have broken mechanics.
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