AOE Threat

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AOE Threat

Postby Bashe » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:02 am

I feel kinda hesitant to start this topic, which is effectively a somewhat civilized whine about threat, pretty much a no-no at the moment. However, this is a problem I keep running into, and I need to speak of this with other tankadins, of which I know zero on my server.

SO my problem is threat (there, I said it) and more to the point it's aoe threat. Whether its on multi pulls in HC (where dps can be told to assist, chill out or get out) and recently in raids, I lose aggro quite easily on mobs I'm not actively hitting in the face (my main target is secure, let's not go down that road).

To illustrate how this has become a problem, let me explain a recent scenario. My 10-man raid, casual guild went to the Conclave of Wind for the first time. We went along a fairly common strat of letting the tanks hop between nature and ice, while dps did the same but on different 'timers'. But every time when it was my turn to tank nature guy and he would spawn adds, the dps DK and rogue that were there most of the time (just go back to share the ice guy ult) absolutely shred aggro on those adds right off me. No (realistic) amount of waiting would prevent that. In the end we came up with a tank switch rotation where the tanking DK (a different DK) would simply keep going back to green in time for adds every time, because he could hold them. (We did kill conclave in case you're wondering).

On other nights we've been working on Maloriak, and there the problem was even more outrageous. I was on add duty there, and whenever an add initially gets away from me, and end up in the DK's 'tank zone', I have real issues getting it back to me. If it is there for longer than a second or two, even running there (not advisable but what can I do) and hitting normal rotation doesn't get the job done fast enough for comfort. Basically if my disc misses one (or 2 :x ) of them, I sometimes have to give up on those adds completely.

Now I have hallowed ground and I'm pretty much specced for maximum threat, but it's just not cutting it. Does this sound familiar to anyone out there?
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Epimer » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:48 am

Are you using Inquisition?
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Bashe » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:47 am

I'm not actually, probably a bit foolish to overlook that ability. But due it's short duration and impracticality (steals my HP) I kinda put it on low priority. hm.

EDIT: Okay truthfully, I had no idea that inquisition triggers holy shield (just found that out in game). That makes it a lot more attractive.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Xanthir » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:10 pm

Yeah for AE you really want to get inquisition as soon as you can. You should see very little problem with threat especially if you are using all of your other ae tools as well.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Sedrea » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:55 pm

For Maloriak, build up HP on the boss while you wait for adds to spawn so you can start the pickup with Inquis. Watch how many spawn on each side, taunt the side with only 1 and HotR the side with 2 when they start getting close. As your kiting back and forth through totems or frost traps use HotR and HW as you pass through them. I don't use Cons on this fight because it strains my mana too much (I'm not talented for it).

When you are on the side with one and they pop, hit it once then run to the other side. Taunt one and AS the other, if AS misses it will undoubtedly get picked up by a healer so RD them. If for whatever reason it goes to the MT, taunt it when it's available again and hit it asap. If you have to stop moving use a CD and WoG yourself instead of using Inquis.

While your kiting if you keep using HotR you should have enough HP to constantly use Inquis or WoG if you need the heals when 9 are out.

Most bosses with adds (Conclave, Maloriak, etc) have spots to build HP before they spawn. Keep 3 stacks ready and use Inquis when you need to snap AoE threat.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Cenamderi » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:30 pm

i would like to add something to this as i just took a week off warcraft i have come back, and did a couple of dungeon's and im losing agro on aoe, my gear is fine my enchants are not too bad still working on them, my rotation is fine i use inquisition and i make sure i have the right seal and RF up but im still losing agro has something changed in the mechanics over the last week or so as i have noticed a few people making the same statement ?
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Siral » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:52 am

i've similar problems to you. Single target tanking is not an issue, but when AOE comes in play i'm in trouble.

I must try to spam more inquisition in this kind of situation, but i must give up on self healing with WoG (and i'm specced eternal glory and guarded by light).

And since i dont feel very confident with my healers (seems a little too slow to react spike damage), i'm afraid that trying to go with inquisition in place of WoG could be dangerous.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Aerron » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:45 am

Siral wrote:I must try to spam more inquisition in this kind of situation, but i must give up on self healing with WoG (and i'm specced eternal glory and guarded by light).

And since i dont feel very confident with my healers (seems a little too slow to react spike damage), i'm afraid that trying to go with inquisition in place of WoG could be dangerous.

I find it's not really an absolute one-or-the-other situation. I'll often start pulls with Inq, maybe Inq once or twice more, then switch to WoG. By that point I have a firm grip on threat and can WoG and AoE rotate the rest of the way.

Inquisition can build up enough of a lead that unless you hit escape and just stand there, dps isn't going to catch up to you. Assuming of course that DPS is targeting the mob you're currently on and all that.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Thark » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:33 pm

With a little practice, you should find AOE threat to be fine.

In an AOE situation, you should use your Holy Power for Inquisition. If you're worried about damage at the start of a pull, use a cooldown. Later on you can shift to using WoG or ShoR.

The glyph for Hammer of the Righteous helps too. That's probably one of the bigger things to help your AOE threat level. Consecrate and Holy Wrath help too, but shouldn't be necessary if you don't have the mana.

When in a raid setting, are your DPS doing their part as well? Are they giving you a little bit of time to build threat, or hitting mobs as soon as they spawn? Is the rogue using Tricks on you? Small things like that also play a big part.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Dem » Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:57 pm

Perhaps the issue here is not all about 'my aoe threat is poor', it's 'I'm competing with a DK tank for threat'.

I tank with a DK and their aoe threat is very good, especially with Death & Decay down.

On Conclave, perhaps you could get the rogue to be nice and get some tricks going to assist your threat. Otherwise, I don't worry about keeping aggro on all the adds tbh. If dps and healers can handle over aggro's then it's np. If they can't then get them to tone it down.

Maloriak is easy - put the DK on the adds ;) That's how we do it and it works very well. You have some advantages as the MT here, since when people group up you can use your group heal to help out for instance.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby wrathblood » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:16 am

We had a similar issue on Maloriak. Our first attempts up to our first kill, I had the adds and our DK was on the boss. Was odd, because periodically the DK would accidentally pull new adds with, I believe, the healing from an unfortunately timed DS. Our next week in, the GL noted that since the DK would accidentally pull adds off me, maybe he should just tank them. So we swapped, I put out a metric crap-ton of healing, and the adds stick to him like glue. Works great.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Vanifae » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:52 pm

Inquisition and prioritize AoE Holy abilities first. Grand Crusader procs also help, I also utilize Power Auras so I know just how long my Inquisiton will last.
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Re: AOE Threat

Postby Arianne » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:49 am

Maloriak's adds are a special case because of the stacking damage reduction aura. It doesn't reduce healing threat though, so they're still doing full threat while you're doing 10% threat. We solve this by having a mage Ring of Frost and I kite the first 6 into the ring of frost, then I have 10s or so to pick up the 3 new spawns with them having only 3 DR auras instead of 6-9 DR auras.
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