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Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby inthedrops » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:11 pm

Sparan worded things harshly but he has a valid point. In all cases, just evaluate yourself with your healers to determine if maybe you should swing more one way than the other.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Kihra » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:15 pm

inthedrops wrote:
Kihra wrote:
Sparan wrote:Maybe I'm just taking crazy pills or something, but I really don't understand all of these anecdotes about epic fail tank gib wipes on CoW or other HM's when mastery is stacked.


...so the only real area of swing is sockets and enchants...


Ballpark difference is about 5k health for about 3% block when switching gems around. Obviously it all depends on your professions, and existing gear so I'm sure it can swing one way or the other a bit.

I've done it twice already :) So for me that's the rough numbers. In my case I'm a JC.


Yeah I just tried this for kicks. It ended up being a bit higher for me... about 6.5k health vs. 3.5% block. That's just not all that significant. You're going to do fine either way if you play well and have competent healers. :)
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Awyndel » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:45 am

So in theory, once we do block cap, wouldn't that remove the biggest spike factors we need to deal with?

There wouldn't be any "hits in a row", and for healers failing/dying mitigation is as usefull as EH, if not more usefull.

Ofc big magic damage would be a problem, but this is usually where you plan your big cd's ahead. For reacting to troubles you still have your minor cd's and your priests and paladins should be trained to press that macro.

I'm talking theoritical here, not specifically about current content.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Sparan » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:28 pm

theckhd wrote:You get 23k stamina from raid buffs. You're sitting at 173-178k fully raid-buffed, which is right around the target range we're talking about. Especially since you're probably using at least one mastery trinket in that set-up.

Nobody is suggesting that you aim for 200k health. We're suggesting that with dual stam trinkets, you should be able to hit about 180k. With at least one mastery trinket, we'd be right in your ballpark of 175k.

If you'd be so kind as to share your armory, I'd be willing to bet your gemming and enchanting strategy is exactly in line with what we're suggesting too.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/sparan/simple I wasn't aiming to disagree with you, Theck, but the 2 or 3 people who made reference to running low EH being a major liability on some of the earlier hardmodes. I don't think having 145k unbuffed HP and 60% block would be unacceptable for CoW, because in fact that's pretty close to where I was, and I felt rather stable. That said, I'm fairly well in line with what's emerging as the "conventional wisdom" on the subject, namely that we should meet a minimum EH level and then start working up avoidance stats. I may just have slightly more radical views on how low one can dip before they're "too low". It's probably significant also that being very busy with my extra-WoW affairs has led me to keep mining as a profession, which partially explains why my gemming pattern doesn't match up so well with the herd, but my stats for the most part do.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby inthedrops » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:43 pm

Hey Sparan, I looked at your gear. To be perfectly honest, if I had the exact same gear as yourself I'd probably gem very similar. Currently my weak link is my 346 Helm of the Proud (not having any luck with that or the tank weapon drop)
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Gaxby » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:15 am

inthedrops wrote:Hey Sparan, I looked at your gear. To be perfectly honest, if I had the exact same gear as yourself I'd probably gem very similar. Currently my weak link is my 346 Helm of the Proud (not having any luck with that or the tank weapon drop)


Not to mention the ugly axe! Get the Elementium Fang. It's cooler. :D
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Greengo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:00 am

Sparan wrote:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/sparan/simple I wasn't aiming to disagree with you, Theck, but the 2 or 3 people who made reference to running low EH being a major liability on some of the earlier hardmodes. I don't think having 145k unbuffed HP and 60% block would be unacceptable for CoW, because in fact that's pretty close to where I was, and I felt rather stable. That said, I'm fairly well in line with what's emerging as the "conventional wisdom" on the subject, namely that we should meet a minimum EH level and then start working up avoidance stats. I may just have slightly more radical views on how low one can dip before they're "too low". It's probably significant also that being very busy with my extra-WoW affairs has led me to keep mining as a profession, which partially explains why my gemming pattern doesn't match up so well with the herd, but my stats for the most part do.


Did you tank heroics with 145k HP unbuffed and near block cap? I mean two mastery trinkets, mastery gems etc.

I'm block caped (66% block) and 144k HP only. Normal modes are trivial, but we starting heroic next week. I hope my HP pool will be enough for some heavy magical fights.
Last edited by Greengo on Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby wrathblood » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:06 am

That's some impressive mastery stacking you've got going on, Greengo. I'm curious to hear how it serves in heroics.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:08 am

Sparan wrote:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/blackrock/sparan/simple I wasn't aiming to disagree with you, Theck, but the 2 or 3 people who made reference to running low EH being a major liability on some of the earlier hardmodes. I don't think having 145k unbuffed HP and 60% block would be unacceptable for CoW, because in fact that's pretty close to where I was, and I felt rather stable. That said, I'm fairly well in line with what's emerging as the "conventional wisdom" on the subject, namely that we should meet a minimum EH level and then start working up avoidance stats. I may just have slightly more radical views on how low one can dip before they're "too low".


I think it also depends on your healers to a fair degree. An excellent set of healers with good reaction time could certainly contribute to pushing the "comfortable" EH threshold a little lower.

Taking a look at your armory, you're much more heavily invested in mastery gems than I expected. But you still have 155k HP with mast/stam trinkets, so it's exactly the ballpark I expected. I'm around 157k unbuffed right now, and could probably stand to shift a bit more that direction. In my case, if I followed your gem strategy (parry/mastery in red, mast/stam in blue, mast in yellow), I'd trade 210 Stam for 140 mastery, or about 3.5k HP unbuffed (3.7k buffed) for 1.75% block. So it's a difference, but a relatively small one given our current stats (that's about a 2% loss in total unbuffed health for a 3% relative increase in block chance).

I may do a full regem before this week's raids to see if I can even tell the difference. I was going to wait until I started acquiring more heroic loot to regem to full mastery because I'm cheap, but curiosity always tends to switch off my aversion to impulse purchases.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby The_Marsh » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:13 am

wrathblood wrote:That's some impressive mastery stacking you've got going on, Greengo. I'm curious to hear how it serves in heroics.


This. Do you notice a serious difference in boss fights with large amounts of magic damage? Have your healers commented on your damage intake?

In terms of progression I'm at the same point as you; working on nefarian normal mode. I'm sitting at about 190k health raid buffed, but when I tank Onyxia in P1 I still sometimes see myself drop scarily low during a breath+melee combination. Do you have any trouble with this?
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby towelliee » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:06 am

So before tonight I was sitting at 172K unbuff HP with a 196K Raid buff HP. My stats were 10% Dodge 13.5% Parry 48% Block Here is a World of Logs of our best attempt on Halfus 25HM. I was tanking both Nether Scion and Halfus. With Tank switches on Halfus.

Damage from Nether Scion

[21:50:02.734] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:04.484] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:06.281] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 39359 (B: 26240)
[21:50:08.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 45945 (B: 30630)
[21:50:09.875] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:11.765] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:13.500] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 27509 (A: 2469, B: 19986)
[21:50:15.375] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 27785 (B: 18524)
[21:50:17.140] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 20048 (A: 4077, B: 16084)
[21:50:18.906] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 8720 (A: 23067, B: 21192)
[21:50:20.718] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:50:22.593] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 21358 (A: 1765, B: 15416)
[21:50:24.312] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 54491
[21:50:26.171] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 39263
[21:50:27.953] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 73038 (A: 635)
[21:50:29.781] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 22781 (A: 15624, B: 25604)
[21:50:31.515] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 48262 (A: 3931)
[21:50:33.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 34250 (B: 22834)
[21:50:35.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 69319
[21:50:37.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32757 (A: 2150)
[21:50:38.812] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Absorb (23902)
[21:50:40.609] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:42.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:44.218] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 20776 (A: 5194, B: 11130)
[21:50:45.968] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:47.781] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 8062 (A: 22920, B: 20655)
[21:50:49.578] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32277 (A: 8069, B: 26898)
[21:50:51.437] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 24805 (A: 6201, B: 20671)
[21:50:53.265] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Miss
[21:50:55.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:50:56.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 30583 (B: 20389)
[21:50:58.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 34960 (B: 23307)
[21:51:00.437] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:02.296] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 45629 (B: 30420)
[21:51:04.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:05.859] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 25027 (A: 22954)
[21:51:07.609] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 26507 (A: 2567, B: 19383)
[21:51:09.453] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 33182 (B: 22122)
[21:51:11.250] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 33193 (B: 22129)
[21:51:13.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 47530 (A: 3543)
[21:51:14.828] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:16.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:18.468] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 11654 (A: 38917)
[21:51:20.296] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:22.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 72088
[21:51:23.859] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:25.625] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:27.437] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:29.265] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:31.062] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 48222 (A: 15240)
[21:51:32.843] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:34.656] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:36.437] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:40.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:40.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:41.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 42877 (A: 13626)
[21:51:43.687] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:45.500] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 60459
[21:51:47.281] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38299 (B: 25533)
[21:51:49.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:50.828] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 28864 (A: 1732, B: 20398)
[21:51:52.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:54.484] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 34572 (B: 23048)
[21:51:56.281] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 57205
[21:51:58.093] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38890 (B: 25927)
[21:51:59.953] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 21204 (A: 16545, B: 25166)
[21:52:01.671] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 55865
[21:52:03.546] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:05.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:52:07.187] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 34136 (A: 3960, B: 25398)
[21:52:08.906] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:52:10.843] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32004 (B: 21336)
[21:52:12.593] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:14.375] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 69956
[21:52:16.203] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38333 (B: 25556)
[21:52:18.015] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 26716 (A: 30154)
[21:52:19.812] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:21.640] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 27652 (A: 13626, B: 27519)
[21:52:23.453] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 41713 (B: 27809)
[21:52:25.234] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 29816 (A: 1715, B: 21021)
[21:52:27.015] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38230 (B: 25487)
[21:52:28.828] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 29192 (A: 5926)
[21:52:30.687] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 41991
[21:52:32.390] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Absorb (17372)
[21:52:34.234] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:52:36.031] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 9503 (A: 28536, B: 25360)
[21:52:37.828] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 20492 (A: 16244, B: 24491)
[21:52:39.625] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:41.593] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 57279
[21:52:43.265] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 48216
[21:52:45.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 42337 (B: 28225)
[21:52:46.906] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 55723
[21:52:48.640] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 42452 (B: 28302)
[21:52:50.453] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 54899
[21:52:52.171] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 17675 (A: 12608, B: 20189)
[21:52:54.046] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Absorb (26024)
[21:52:55.828] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:52:57.640] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:59.468] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 29328 (A: 8191)
[21:53:01.234] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 27026 (B: 18018)
[21:53:03.000] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 25730 (B: 17154)
[21:53:04.843] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 29900 (A: 266, B: 20111)
[21:53:06.625] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38581 (A: 957, B: 26359)
[21:53:08.500] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 33230 (A: 8472, B: 27802)
[21:53:10.234] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:12.062] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:13.875] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:15.718] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 31798 (B: 21199)
[21:53:17.468] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:19.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:53:21.046] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:22.968] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 33520 (A: 543, B: 22709)
[21:53:24.671] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:53:26.515] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 44577 (B: 29718)
[21:53:28.265] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 45853 (A: 1134, B: 31325)
[21:53:30.140] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:31.890] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 13128 (A: 46127)
[21:53:33.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 38350 (B: 25567)
[21:53:35.500] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32611 (B: 21741)
[21:53:37.343] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 35890
[21:53:39.109] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 44210
[21:53:40.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 42801
[21:53:42.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32414 (A: 6577)
[21:53:44.625] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 21730 (B: 14487)
[21:53:46.343] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:53:48.156] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 24982
[21:53:49.953] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 14674 (B: 9783)
[21:53:51.750] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 17024 (B: 11350)
[21:53:53.546] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:53:55.359] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 22167 (B: 14778)
[21:53:57.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 49140 (A: 664)
[21:53:58.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 35624 (B: 23750)
[21:54:00.750] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:54:02.593] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 58521 (A: 1394)

Damage from Halfus Wyrmbreaker

[21:50:39.562] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 14847 (B: 9898)
[21:50:40.453] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:50:41.921] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Absorb (16928)
[21:50:42.562] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:50:42.968] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:50:43.984] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 11731 (A: 8077, B: 13206)
[21:50:44.515] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:50:45.062] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 14808 (A: 3701, B: 12340)
[21:50:46.046] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:50:46.062] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (2) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:50:47.078] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:50:49.140] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 20671 (A: 5167, B: 17226)
[21:50:50.125] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (3) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:50:50.250] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 19655 (A: 4913, B: 16379)
[21:50:51.250] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 19076 (A: 4768, B: 15896)
[21:50:51.312] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (4) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:50:52.078] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (5) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:50:52.312] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 21342 (B: 14228)
[21:50:52.984] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:50:53.515] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:50:56.406] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:50:57.546] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 20843 (B: 13896)
[21:50:58.218] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:50:58.500] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:50:59.609] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:22.125] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Malevolent Strikes fades from Towelliee
[21:51:26.437] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:27.437] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:28.500] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 14284 (A: 11947, B: 17488)
[21:51:29.359] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:29.578] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 25020 (B: 16680)
[21:51:30.500] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:30.593] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (2) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:31.578] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:51:33.609] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 27764 (B: 18510)
[21:51:34.578] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (3) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:34.656] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:35.671] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:36.703] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:51:37.687] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 11768 (A: 14923, B: 17794)
[21:51:40.046] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (4) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:40.078] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 28313 (B: 18876)
[21:51:40.234] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (5) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:40.875] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 29026 (B: 12440)
[21:51:41.796] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (6) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:41.937] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 10955 (A: 13626, B: 16388)
[21:51:42.937] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:51:43.000] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (7) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:43.984] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 30452 (B: 13051)
[21:51:44.968] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 19882 (A: 565, B: 13632)
[21:51:45.000] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (8) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:45.390] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:51:45.984] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 21725 (B: 14484)
[21:51:47.031] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (9) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:47.281] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Malevolent Strikes fades from Towelliee
[21:51:48.031] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:51:49.125] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 18289 (A: 1732, B: 13348)
[21:51:50.156] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:51:50.218] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:51:52.171] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:51:53.250] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:20.187] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Malevolent Strikes fades from Towelliee
[21:52:22.093] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 21191 (B: 14128)
[21:52:23.109] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:24.203] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:25.234] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 23141 (A: 1715, B: 16571)
[21:52:25.906] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:52:26.234] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:27.218] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:52:28.250] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 14588 (B: 9726)
[21:52:28.765] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:52:29.468] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:31.906] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:32.796] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:33.812] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 8832 (A: 3706, B: 8359)
[21:52:34.734] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (2) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:34.875] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:35.843] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:36.921] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:37.921] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:39.765] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:52:41.156] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 10155 (A: 13626, B: 15854)
[21:52:41.843] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 27467 (B: 18312)
[21:52:41.953] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (3) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:42.765] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (4) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:42.890] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 7276 (A: 14610, B: 14591)
[21:52:43.890] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 31856 (B: 13653)
[21:52:43.953] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (5) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:44.750] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (6) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:44.937] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:46.984] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:52:48.171] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 13045 (A: 10542, B: 15725)
[21:52:49.078] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 28075 (B: 18717)
[21:52:49.140] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (7) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:52:49.640] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:52:50.093] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 23287 (B: 15525)
[21:52:51.140] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (8) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:21.140] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Malevolent Strikes fades from Towelliee
[21:53:29.781] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Shadow Nova Towelliee 35097 (R: 9749)
[21:53:32.609] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:33.625] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:53:34.625] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 28482 (B: 18988)
[21:53:35.656] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:37.312] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Furious Roar Towelliee 11119 (A: 557)
[21:53:37.343] Towelliee afflicted by Furious Roar from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:39.375] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Furious Roar fades from Towelliee
[21:53:39.734] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Furious Roar Towelliee 11280
[21:53:39.734] Towelliee afflicted by Furious Roar from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:41.750] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Furious Roar fades from Towelliee
[21:53:42.046] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Furious Roar Towelliee Absorb (11602)
[21:53:42.093] Towelliee afflicted by Furious Roar from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:44.171] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Furious Roar fades from Towelliee
[21:53:44.703] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 17567 (B: 11712)
[21:53:45.687] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (2) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:45.734] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:46.734] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:47.781] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:48.750] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 12631 (B: 8421)
[21:53:49.671] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (3) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:49.812] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 13143 (B: 8762)
[21:53:50.828] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 7576 (A: 2874, B: 6967)
[21:53:50.875] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (4) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:51.703] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (5) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:51.859] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 9800 (B: 6534)
[21:53:52.468] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Malevolent Strikes Towelliee Miss
[21:53:54.734] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 13707 (A: 4656, B: 12242)
[21:53:55.671] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (6) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:55.765] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 20855 (B: 13904)
[21:53:56.828] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:56.875] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (7) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:57.843] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee 20939 (B: 13960)
[21:53:58.859] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:53:58.875] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (8) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:59.921] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Miss
[21:54:00.859] Halfus Wyrmbreaker hits Towelliee Parry
[21:54:02.390] Halfus Wyrmbreaker Shadow Nova Towelliee Miss
[21:54:02.937] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Malevolent Strikes fades from Towelliee

Now first thing I notcied is Holy jesus Halfus hits like a GIRL. But that damn Nether Scion hits like a TRUCK.

Tonight I decided to changed the following.

Red Slots - Parry/Mastery
Blue Slots - Mastery/Stamina
Yellow Slots - +40 Mastery / +67 from JC

Trinkets - I swaped out the Double Dragons trinket for the Tol Barad Magic resistance trinket

My stats are now : 156k Unbuff 10.72% Dodge -- 13.76% Parry -- 58.51% Block Chance

I guess my questions is plain and simple.

Does the exchange of 16k HP for 10% Block Chance help with the incoming dmg from the Nether Scions in this particular encounter? Or rather does the exchange help me get more of a better chance or significant more chance to block his attacks.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:41 am

towelliee wrote:Does the exchange of 16k HP for 10% Block Chance help with the incoming dmg from the Nether Scions in this particular encounter? Or rather does the exchange help me get more of a better chance or significant more chance to block his attacks.


It depends on how you tend to die. Mastery will help a lot on drake/whelp/halfus damage intake during the "normal" phases. So if you're getting gibbed in the first 2-3 minutes by raw damage, then yes, that's probably a good trade.

In our kill, we released Time Warden, Storm Rider, Whelps, Nether Scion on the pull. I tanked TW+Whelps, then TW+Whelps+Halfus with cooldowns running, and then released Slate Dragon once TW was dead and off-tanked it for the rest of the fight. Whelps died to AoE and mages combusting off of Halfus around the same time as TW.

Other than a few early gibs on the pull (healers not ready for the sheer damage output of TW+Whelps), which was solved by using GaNK on the pull, I didn't die to the sheer melee of TW+Whelps or Slate, nor did my healer have mana problems. Once we had the strategy sorted out, wipes were more often the result of someone screwing up cooldowns during the Furious Roar phase, and a tank dying to their drake. Mastery does not help there because you're being knocked down, and can't block (I think, ~90% sure about that).

Interestingly, your updated stats look a lot like what I have with balanced gemming. I'll take note of my unbuffed stats before and after I regem for full mastery tonight, just for comparison. I plan on trying the full mastery set-up for this week's raids.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Greengo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:52 am

towelliee wrote:[21:53:37.343] Towelliee afflicted by Furious Roar from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:53:37.343] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 35890
[21:53:39.109] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 44210
[21:53:40.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 42801
[21:53:42.703] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 32414 (A: 6577)
[21:53:44.171] Halfus Wyrmbreaker's Furious Roar fades from Towelliee
(...)
21:53:57.125] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 49140 (A: 664)
[21:53:58.937] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 35624 (B: 23750)
[21:53:58.875] Towelliee afflicted by Malevolent Strikes (8) from Halfus Wyrmbreaker
[21:54:00.750] Nether Scion hits Towelliee Dodge
[21:54:02.593] Nether Scion hits Towelliee 58521 (A: 1394)

Does the exchange of 16k HP for 10% Block Chance help with the incoming dmg from the Nether Scions in this particular encounter? Or rather does the exchange help me get more of a better chance or significant more chance to block his attacks.



More block doesn't help you so much during stun after Furious Roar (when you should burn your own and external cds), but I think is a good deal - especially with two mastery trinkets, if possible.
Anyway tanking Nether Scion with 8 stacks of Malevolent Strikes debuff isn’t a good idea, imho ;)

BTW, this week I’ll try to tank two dragons in phase 1 (and whelps, perhaps), block caped. Wish me luck :]
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby Dem » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:05 am

theckhd wrote:I think it also depends on your healers to a fair degree.


This. Except I'd extend that to say it depends on the whole raid group - the healers are taxed to a greater or lesser extent by dps.
.
We need to remember that we're not tanking in a vacuum. All the theory and best practice in the world won't guarantee success without a holistic view. It's a great starting point, but flexibility in approach to gearing for your particular raid is critical.

What works in practice is the only criteria that matters.
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery

Postby cappytoi » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:18 am

Our first kill of halfus hc, I had around 185k buffed hp with 51% block 11% dodge 14% parry unbuffed. When I finally got the mastery trinket from tb, I regemmed to mastery. At the first kill I remember I was dying randomly, mostly because the insane spike. Last night with the current gear (except the heroic tier piece), I felt more comfortable while tanking both halfus and a drake while our dk tank was dying randomly with 200k hp. Stun was a non issue as long as I got all the cds I need at the second phase. Same thing for the nef normal, I was more comfortable with the 3rd phase as I was also glyphed the DProt to 40% mag. red. With the trinket and glyphed DProt, I always had a cooldown for the electrocutes and tbh, breathes were non-issue (as the most worst possible situation is breath+electrocute+melee attack just after, having got at least 40% dmg reduction for both electrocute and breath made it really easy). Before regemming mastery my healer on nef at the end of the fight was nearly oom, while I noticed that he was around 40% last kill. I am pretty sure my healers will be spamming their efficient heal on me if I hit block cap (for normals), which will be very soon I think. On chim hc tries, I also see that our 200k hp dk is not more survival than me, altho I used mastery + armor potion as well on that fight (nets me around 63% block). There might be some fights that might require some more hp I assume, if that'll be the issue, I can just switch my mastery trinket for a stamina one. As for then, I'll let it go like this.
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