Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd
Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
:/ I've run some semi randomish simulations to check how stamina goes vs mastery since there's tons on debate about that.
Blocked hit deals 60% damage. Pounding for 2500 hits. (Dodge inflated as 5% miss is included in dodge)
Simulated stats:
Health: 155000
Dodge: 11.00
Parry: 12.00
Block: 55.00
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
Simulated stats:
Health: 170000 (+15k)
Dodge: 11.00
Parry: 12.00
Block: 45.00 (-10%)
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
Simulated stats - mine with crapish gear:
Health: 143713
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 50.92
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
Simulated stats - mine with crapish gear stacking stam instead of mastery:
Health: 152748
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 47.60
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
Unless I'm being horribly wrong somewhere in simulation ... :/ Mastery in the long run is better than stamina.
Excel VBA code:
Blocked hit deals 60% damage. Pounding for 2500 hits. (Dodge inflated as 5% miss is included in dodge)
Simulated stats:
Health: 155000
Dodge: 11.00
Parry: 12.00
Block: 55.00
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
- Code: Select all
Swings Taken Blocked Dodged Parried Hit
01 2500 1399 369 319 413
02 2500 1368 382 322 428
03 403 210 62 62 69
04 2500 1338 407 324 431
05 2500 1393 420 300 387
06 2500 1387 385 309 419
07 2500 1382 396 329 393
08 2500 1387 392 301 420
09 2500 1382 389 323 406
10 2500 1372 402 301 425
11 2500 1335 401 324 440
12 2500 1364 395 312 429
13 2500 1394 414 313 379
14 2500 1403 391 280 426
15 2500 1357 410 291 442
16 2500 1355 403 297 445
17 1652 883 280 198 291
18 2500 1393 387 279 441
19 2500 1350 413 291 446
20 2500 1356 404 316 424
Simulated stats:
Health: 170000 (+15k)
Dodge: 11.00
Parry: 12.00
Block: 45.00 (-10%)
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
- Code: Select all
Swings Taken Blocked Dodged Parried Hit
01 2024 893 342 225 564
02 1600 738 253 189 420
03 530 241 77 61 151
04 2500 1110 414 296 680
05 807 346 134 102 225
06 2500 1136 408 275 681
07 296 137 42 31 86
08 2105 951 315 276 563
09 1242 570 181 150 341
10 2500 1101 422 319 658
11 797 379 127 88 203
12 2500 1124 363 331 682
13 1815 836 275 194 510
14 1426 670 241 149 366
15 2500 1146 394 296 664
16 690 293 118 81 198
17 2453 1117 375 303 658
18 2500 1086 427 292 695
19 2500 1182 377 292 649
20 2500 1143 400 276 681
Simulated stats - mine with crapish gear:
Health: 143713
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 50.92
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
- Code: Select all
Swings Taken Blocked Dodged Parried Hit
01 2500 1289 395 314 502
02 2500 1286 389 321 504
03 2500 1271 394 319 516
04 2500 1280 389 335 496
05 2500 1321 422 284 473
06 2340 1192 385 263 500
07 2500 1278 404 289 529
08 2500 1231 422 333 514
09 2500 1220 444 314 522
10 2500 1281 413 316 490
11 2500 1259 397 324 520
12 2500 1261 388 312 539
13 2500 1231 424 322 523
14 2500 1262 401 322 515
15 2500 1288 392 325 495
16 2500 1310 389 288 513
17 2500 1286 412 310 492
18 2500 1276 428 318 478
19 1412 701 205 185 321
20 2500 1298 394 316 492
Simulated stats - mine with crapish gear stacking stam instead of mastery:
Health: 152748
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 47.60
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
- Code: Select all
Swings Taken Blocked Dodged Parried Hit
01 2500 1235 397 325 543
02 1780 863 275 223 419
03 1446 681 220 200 345
04 2500 1183 408 304 605
05 2500 1175 426 295 604
06 2500 1165 425 343 567
07 826 401 118 101 206
08 2500 1230 414 309 547
09 2500 1192 411 313 584
10 2500 1190 409 313 588
11 2500 1192 421 278 609
12 1928 900 306 241 481
13 2500 1180 418 317 585
14 1301 626 192 179 304
15 684 330 102 91 161
16 285 132 37 40 76
17 342 172 51 28 91
18 2500 1181 430 330 559
19 2500 1152 450 291 607
20 2500 1252 391 316 541
Unless I'm being horribly wrong somewhere in simulation ... :/ Mastery in the long run is better than stamina.
Excel VBA code:
- Code: Select all
Sub Button1_Click()
Dim HP As Long
Dim Armor As Integer, Dodge As Integer, Parry As Integer, Block As Integer
Dim DPS As Long, HPS As Long, DMG As Long
Armor = Range("D1").Value
HP = Range("D2").Value
mHP = Range("D2").Value
Dodge = Range("D3").Value + 500
Parry = Range("D4").Value
Block = Range("D5").Value
DPS = Range("D6").Value
HPS = Range("D7").Value
For Z = 0 To 19
Range("A9:D5555").Clear
For i = 0 To 4999
Range("A" & i + 9).Value = HP
If ((i Mod 2) = 0) Then
Rng = Int((10000 - 1 + 1) * Rnd + 1)
If Rng < Dodge Then 'Dodged
Range("B" & i + 9).Value = "Dodge!"
Range("C" & i + 9).Value = ""
Rng = 20000
Else
If Rng < (Parry + Dodge) Then 'Parried
Range("B" & i + 9).Value = "Parry!"
Range("C" & i + 9).Value = ""
Rng = 20000
Else
If Rng < (Parry + Dodge + Block) Then 'Blocked
Range("B" & i + 9).Value = "Block!"
DMG = Int(DPS * 0.6)
HP = HP - DMG
Range("C" & i + 9).Value = DMG
Rng = 20000
Else
If Rng < 15000 Then 'Hit taken
Range("B" & i + 9).Value = "POW!"
DMG = DPS
Range("C" & i + 9).Value = DMG
HP = HP - DMG
End If
End If
End If
End If
End If
HP = HP + HPS
If (HP > mHP) Then HP = mHP
Range("D" & i + 9).Value = HP
If (HP < 0) Then Exit For
Next i
Range("F" & (Z + 14) & ":J" & (Z + 14)).Value = Range("F12:J12").Value
HP = Range("D2").Value
Next Z
End Sub
Last edited by Onewinged on Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Onewinged
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:28 am
Re: Stamina vs Mastery
And for the lulz
Simulated stats:
Health: 98748
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 70.00
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
Simulated stats:
Health: 98748
Dodge: 11.32
Parry: 12.56
Block: 70.00
Enemy damage with 2s swing: 33000
HPS: 10000
- Code: Select all
Swings Taken Blocked Dodged Parried Hit
01 2500 1738 403 339 20
02 2500 1750 391 331 28
03 2500 1756 427 296 21
04 2500 1778 393 295 34
05 2500 1760 427 284 29
06 2500 1742 407 330 21
07 2500 1772 398 306 24
08 2500 1791 366 313 30
09 2500 1741 428 303 28
10 2500 1771 378 321 30
11 2500 1742 438 293 27
12 2500 1783 402 285 30
13 2500 1728 428 303 41
14 2500 1721 418 334 27
15 2500 1742 406 329 23
16 2500 1796 407 273 24
17 2500 1738 424 312 26
18 2500 1765 404 296 35
19 2500 1792 385 302 21
20 2500 1744 403 322 31
- Onewinged
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:28 am
Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
More-semirealistic simulation:
Health: 169000
Dodge: 10.03
Parry: 12.53
Block: 51.08
Boss swings each 2s: 50000
Average HPS: 8000
Fight length: 7 mins
Encounters: 1000
Average gibbing blow: 16.161
Attempts with 40+ hits survived: 7
Now the tank decides to screw stamina enchants and gems and goes for mastery!
Replacing: JC Stamina gems with Mastery. Mas/Sta gems with pure Mas. Sta gems with Mas/Sta. And Stamina enchants for Mastery. And replaces Stamina trinket with Mastery trinket
Stamina lost: 900 ~ 16363 Health -- Mastery gained: 765 ~ 4 Mastery
Seeing as he lacks 0.25 mastery he pushes 60 Sta aside for 50 more Mastery.
Stamina lost: 950 ~ 17300 Health -- Mastery gained: 815 ~ 5 Mastery = 11.25 Block
Health: 152000
Dodge: 10.03
Parry: 12.53
Block: 62.33
Boss swings each 2s: 50000
Average HPS: 8000
Fight length: 7 mins
Encounters: 1000
Average gibbing blow: 18.862 (+2 hits on average)
Attempts with 40+ hits survived: 24 (Three times more!)
Yeah :/ Mastery ftw?
Even going EXTREME mastery stacking, and ending with approx 137k health and 72% average killing blow goes up to 21.5 o_O
(All health values are unbuffed)
Health: 169000
Dodge: 10.03
Parry: 12.53
Block: 51.08
Boss swings each 2s: 50000
Average HPS: 8000
Fight length: 7 mins
Encounters: 1000
Average gibbing blow: 16.161
Attempts with 40+ hits survived: 7
- Code: Select all
Attempt KB B D P
1 8 5 0 0 3
2 24 13 5 3 3
3 18 10 4 1 3
4 10 5 1 1 3
5 10 6 1 0 3
6 23 11 3 5 4
7 11 8 0 1 2
8 11 10 0 0 1
9 7 1 1 0 5
10 18 10 4 1 3
11 10 4 1 1 4
12 7 3 0 0 4
13 16 13 2 0 1
14 8 5 0 0 3
15 18 10 1 4 3
16 14 6 2 2 4
17 8 3 1 0 4
18 36 21 8 5 2
19 18 10 2 3 3
20 19 9 6 0 4
21 17 8 3 2 4
22 12 7 0 2 3
23 11 8 1 0 2
24 16 6 3 2 5
25 27 15 5 4 3
26 24 14 3 4 3
27 11 3 0 3 5
28 40 16 6 11 7
29 19 9 3 3 4
30 19 10 1 5 3
31 11 6 1 1 3
32 18 10 3 2 3
33 21 12 4 2 3
34 24 10 5 4 5
35 13 11 1 0 1
36 8 5 0 0 3
37 13 8 1 2 2
38 12 6 1 1 4
39 16 5 2 3 6
40 19 7 2 5 5
41 25 13 1 7 4
42 16 9 3 1 3
43 10 5 1 0 4
44 16 9 1 3 3
45 16 7 5 0 4
46 14 8 1 2 3
47 19 9 5 1 4
48 27 15 4 5 3
49 17 8 3 2 4
50 23 8 4 5 6
51 20 7 4 3 6
52 10 7 1 0 2
53 12 6 1 1 4
54 14 13 0 1 0
55 12 7 2 0 3
56 16 6 3 2 5
57 21 11 4 2 4
58 24 15 3 5 1
59 14 6 1 3 4
60 41 17 11 8 5
61 15 12 0 2 1
62 8 3 1 0 4
63 16 9 2 2 3
64 11 8 0 1 2
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66 39 15 11 6 7
67 18 6 4 3 5
68 18 12 2 2 2
69 11 7 1 0 3
70 8 5 0 0 3
71 16 9 3 1 3
72 18 10 3 2 3
73 17 9 3 2 3
74 19 9 4 2 4
75 13 5 0 3 5
76 19 9 4 2 4
77 12 7 1 1 3
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80 15 7 2 2 4
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82 8 5 0 0 3
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109 11 5 1 1 4
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117 11 3 1 2 5
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119 8 5 0 0 3
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150 30 15 5 6 4
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158 15 5 3 2 5
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206 30 20 6 3 1
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212 13 9 2 0 2
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218 50 24 10 11 5
219 27 16 5 4 2
220 18 10 4 1 3
221 12 6 1 1 4
222 13 6 2 1 4
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266 19 6 3 4 6
267 12 6 1 1 4
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275 13 4 3 1 5
276 25 16 4 4 1
277 16 9 3 1 3
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352 21 8 5 3 5
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354 13 6 1 2 4
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613 9 4 0 1 4
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648 12 7 1 1 3
649 15 9 2 1 3
650 22 8 4 5 5
651 19 12 2 3 2
652 11 8 1 0 2
653 9 6 0 0 3
654 8 4 0 0 4
655 14 3 3 2 6
656 15 6 4 1 4
657 9 4 1 0 4
658 17 7 6 1 3
659 14 10 0 2 2
660 29 13 3 9 4
661 18 8 2 4 4
662 12 6 1 1 4
663 8 3 1 0 4
664 12 6 2 1 3
665 8 3 0 1 4
666 5 0 0 0 5
667 6 2 0 0 4
668 15 6 4 0 5
669 11 4 1 2 4
670 13 6 1 2 4
671 18 8 5 1 4
672 13 8 2 0 3
673 14 8 2 1 3
674 21 10 4 3 4
675 13 8 1 1 3
676 14 8 2 1 3
677 26 15 6 2 3
678 20 9 4 3 4
679 16 9 0 4 3
680 14 8 1 2 3
681 32 16 7 5 4
682 10 6 0 1 3
683 11 5 0 2 4
684 15 8 3 1 3
685 16 7 2 3 4
686 10 4 1 1 4
687 15 7 2 2 4
688 19 7 4 3 5
689 15 6 3 1 5
690 9 6 0 0 3
691 14 8 1 2 3
692 9 2 2 0 5
693 17 10 2 2 3
694 10 6 1 0 3
695 11 5 0 2 4
696 28 14 5 6 3
697 12 6 2 0 4
698 15 6 3 1 5
699 8 3 1 0 4
700 11 7 0 1 3
701 20 5 5 3 7
702 20 13 3 2 2
703 12 4 1 2 5
704 20 9 4 3 4
705 17 7 3 3 4
706 12 7 1 1 3
707 11 10 0 0 1
708 13 9 2 0 2
709 16 6 3 2 5
710 15 8 2 2 3
711 20 12 3 2 3
712 16 8 2 2 4
713 14 8 3 0 3
714 11 6 2 0 3
715 14 9 2 1 2
716 12 3 3 1 5
717 14 12 1 0 1
718 16 9 4 0 3
719 12 6 0 2 4
720 39 19 10 6 4
721 11 3 2 1 5
722 12 6 2 0 4
723 20 9 3 5 3
724 12 7 0 2 3
725 13 9 0 2 2
726 18 12 3 1 2
727 10 7 0 1 2
728 11 5 1 1 4
729 27 10 3 8 6
730 8 2 0 1 5
731 7 3 0 0 4
732 13 4 2 2 5
733 9 4 0 1 4
734 22 14 4 2 2
735 17 8 2 3 4
736 10 7 1 0 2
737 30 11 10 3 6
738 10 6 0 1 3
739 14 7 3 1 3
740 33 18 7 5 3
741 17 9 3 2 3
742 27 12 6 5 4
743 18 10 3 2 3
744 13 9 0 2 2
745 23 11 5 5 2
746 9 7 0 0 2
747 33 18 7 5 3
748 17 11 1 3 2
749 11 4 1 1 5
750 12 4 1 2 5
751 6 2 0 0 4
752 12 5 2 1 4
753 15 9 2 1 3
754 10 6 0 1 3
755 21 10 3 4 4
756 15 8 2 2 3
757 21 10 5 2 4
758 16 6 2 3 5
759 7 3 0 0 4
760 9 7 0 0 2
761 14 7 1 2 4
762 23 13 1 6 3
763 18 5 4 3 6
764 15 9 1 2 3
765 19 11 1 4 3
766 10 5 1 1 3
767 14 10 0 2 2
768 17 8 2 3 4
769 23 9 7 2 5
770 12 4 2 1 5
771 18 4 2 6 6
772 20 10 5 2 3
773 31 17 9 2 3
774 18 10 5 0 3
775 11 4 1 2 4
776 24 10 6 3 5
777 16 6 3 2 5
778 13 11 1 0 1
779 17 8 4 2 3
780 13 7 1 2 3
781 11 5 1 1 4
782 14 8 1 2 3
783 15 12 1 1 1
784 18 8 3 3 4
785 14 8 2 1 3
786 14 10 2 0 2
787 11 8 1 0 2
788 8 3 1 0 4
789 12 8 1 1 2
790 25 14 4 4 3
791 19 10 3 3 3
792 23 8 6 3 6
793 12 6 1 1 4
794 11 7 1 0 3
795 18 10 5 0 3
796 13 6 2 1 4
797 12 7 1 1 3
798 19 9 3 3 4
799 8 2 1 0 5
800 11 7 0 1 3
801 22 11 5 2 4
802 21 12 1 5 3
803 14 5 2 2 5
804 11 6 1 1 3
805 12 8 1 1 2
806 20 10 2 5 3
807 15 7 1 3 4
808 14 7 1 2 4
809 13 11 0 1 1
810 16 6 3 2 5
811 41 19 9 8 5
812 11 5 0 2 4
813 12 6 2 0 4
814 9 5 1 0 3
815 12 7 1 1 3
816 9 7 0 0 2
817 19 14 3 1 1
818 13 8 2 1 2
819 15 10 2 1 2
820 28 14 7 3 4
821 15 8 1 3 3
822 11 5 2 0 4
823 27 13 3 7 4
824 21 9 5 2 5
825 12 6 2 0 4
826 10 5 1 0 4
827 12 7 1 1 3
828 14 9 1 2 2
829 9 2 0 2 5
830 14 4 3 2 5
831 16 8 3 1 4
832 12 6 1 2 3
833 10 4 2 0 4
834 9 7 0 0 2
835 23 9 6 3 5
836 10 6 0 1 3
837 22 11 3 4 4
838 10 6 0 1 3
839 16 9 2 2 3
840 13 6 2 1 4
841 13 7 1 2 3
842 17 8 2 3 4
843 19 6 1 6 6
844 15 12 1 1 1
845 8 3 0 1 4
846 26 16 5 3 2
847 18 12 2 2 2
848 25 14 1 7 3
849 14 8 2 1 3
850 10 6 0 1 3
851 10 5 1 0 4
852 24 10 6 3 5
853 16 6 4 1 5
854 32 16 7 6 3
855 35 15 14 1 5
856 16 9 3 1 3
857 12 7 1 1 3
858 13 6 2 1 4
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860 25 14 6 2 3
861 11 8 1 0 2
862 10 5 0 1 4
863 20 11 3 3 3
864 28 13 6 4 5
865 31 13 5 9 4
866 12 7 1 1 3
867 9 5 1 0 3
868 16 8 2 2 4
869 23 11 3 5 4
870 23 9 4 5 5
871 24 12 5 3 4
872 29 16 6 4 3
873 12 7 2 0 3
874 14 9 1 2 2
875 13 6 2 1 4
876 11 8 1 0 2
877 17 9 2 3 3
878 13 6 3 0 4
879 10 4 2 0 4
880 12 4 2 1 5
881 37 17 8 7 5
882 22 9 6 2 5
883 15 9 3 1 2
884 15 9 0 3 3
885 32 18 2 9 3
886 12 8 0 2 2
887 21 10 5 3 3
888 22 13 3 3 3
889 39 19 9 7 4
890 28 7 7 6 8
891 13 9 0 2 2
892 18 12 3 1 2
893 17 8 2 3 4
894 8 5 0 0 3
895 17 8 2 3 4
896 27 14 5 5 3
897 9 4 1 0 4
898 6 2 0 0 4
899 16 9 3 1 3
900 29 8 8 5 8
901 15 4 2 4 5
902 12 4 1 2 5
903 15 9 2 1 3
904 8 5 0 0 3
905 8 3 1 0 4
906 13 7 1 2 3
907 24 12 3 6 3
908 8 2 1 0 5
909 11 7 0 1 3
910 21 12 3 3 3
911 12 7 2 0 3
912 18 7 4 2 5
913 18 9 4 2 3
914 17 8 3 2 4
915 16 5 4 1 6
916 14 10 1 1 2
917 8 3 1 0 4
918 11 8 1 0 2
919 27 12 2 10 3
920 19 7 4 3 5
921 16 10 2 1 3
922 20 10 4 2 4
923 14 8 2 1 3
924 17 8 4 1 4
925 38 11 9 9 9
926 14 8 2 1 3
927 20 13 4 1 2
928 12 7 1 1 3
929 10 4 0 2 4
930 13 7 2 1 3
931 15 10 1 2 2
932 28 14 6 4 4
933 19 7 3 4 5
934 13 9 0 2 2
935 13 6 2 1 4
936 27 11 6 5 5
937 22 2 4 8 8
938 19 9 2 4 4
939 23 13 2 5 3
940 11 5 1 1 4
941 15 5 2 3 5
942 8 5 0 0 3
943 24 12 4 4 4
944 16 11 1 2 2
945 12 2 2 2 6
946 33 13 7 7 6
947 9 3 1 1 4
948 14 8 2 1 3
949 18 7 3 3 5
950 9 7 0 0 2
951 23 11 7 1 4
952 28 15 5 5 3
953 11 3 1 2 5
954 8 3 0 1 4
955 9 7 0 0 2
956 30 15 4 7 4
957 15 6 1 3 5
958 12 6 2 1 3
959 11 8 1 0 2
960 12 7 1 1 3
961 30 15 6 5 4
962 7 3 0 0 4
963 14 5 3 1 5
964 18 7 5 1 5
965 14 8 2 1 3
966 11 10 0 0 1
967 10 4 1 1 4
968 25 15 5 3 2
969 16 11 2 1 2
970 14 8 1 2 3
971 11 4 2 0 5
972 8 5 0 0 3
973 14 8 3 0 3
974 23 9 6 3 5
975 20 14 2 3 1
976 23 13 5 2 3
977 13 5 1 2 5
978 22 10 6 2 4
979 19 9 3 3 4
980 24 15 4 3 2
981 11 3 3 0 5
982 14 5 4 0 5
983 19 10 5 1 3
984 30 15 4 7 4
985 15 9 2 1 3
986 37 12 8 10 7
987 11 3 3 0 5
988 22 14 2 4 2
989 26 11 5 5 5
990 13 6 1 2 4
991 15 6 1 3 5
992 17 14 1 2 0
993 16 5 2 3 6
994 10 5 1 0 4
995 18 10 2 3 3
996 20 8 3 4 5
997 26 10 6 4 6
998 10 6 0 1 3
999 13 6 2 1 4
1000 17 6 4 2 5
Now the tank decides to screw stamina enchants and gems and goes for mastery!
Replacing: JC Stamina gems with Mastery. Mas/Sta gems with pure Mas. Sta gems with Mas/Sta. And Stamina enchants for Mastery. And replaces Stamina trinket with Mastery trinket
Stamina lost: 900 ~ 16363 Health -- Mastery gained: 765 ~ 4 Mastery
Seeing as he lacks 0.25 mastery he pushes 60 Sta aside for 50 more Mastery.
Stamina lost: 950 ~ 17300 Health -- Mastery gained: 815 ~ 5 Mastery = 11.25 Block
Health: 152000
Dodge: 10.03
Parry: 12.53
Block: 62.33
Boss swings each 2s: 50000
Average HPS: 8000
Fight length: 7 mins
Encounters: 1000
Average gibbing blow: 18.862 (+2 hits on average)
Attempts with 40+ hits survived: 24 (Three times more!)
- Code: Select all
1 19 12 3 2 2
2 14 9 3 0 2
3 13 7 3 0 3
4 21 13 2 4 2
5 20 13 6 0 1
6 22 11 1 7 3
7 11 6 2 0 3
8 18 7 4 3 4
9 24 18 3 3 0
10 10 7 0 1 2
11 16 12 2 1 1
12 15 10 2 1 2
13 10 7 1 0 2
14 16 12 1 2 1
15 18 14 1 3 0
16 10 7 0 1 2
17 75 41 17 15 2
18 30 16 6 5 3
19 12 8 0 2 2
20 24 11 4 5 4
21 13 8 1 2 2
22 31 20 3 7 1
23 18 13 2 2 1
24 10 6 1 1 2
25 14 9 2 1 2
26 19 15 3 1 0
27 20 14 5 0 1
28 16 7 4 1 4
29 35 19 9 4 3
30 26 14 4 5 3
31 11 7 2 0 2
32 12 10 0 1 1
33 14 9 2 1 2
34 14 9 2 1 2
35 25 17 6 1 1
36 38 23 8 6 1
37 27 14 7 3 3
38 9 6 0 1 2
39 7 4 0 0 3
40 41 24 5 10 2
41 12 9 1 0 2
42 20 10 4 3 3
43 16 10 3 1 2
44 12 8 1 1 2
45 20 14 3 2 1
46 11 7 0 2 2
47 14 11 0 2 1
48 30 18 3 7 2
49 13 10 2 0 1
50 24 16 3 4 1
51 19 12 3 2 2
52 16 10 2 2 2
53 13 8 1 2 2
54 14 7 3 1 3
55 18 13 3 1 1
56 13 7 2 1 3
57 13 7 2 1 3
58 47 25 7 12 3
59 24 8 6 4 6
60 27 14 5 5 3
61 24 14 4 4 2
62 25 13 5 5 2
63 8 6 0 0 2
64 14 10 2 0 2
65 23 16 6 0 1
66 19 9 4 3 3
67 39 21 8 7 3
68 16 12 1 2 1
69 22 15 6 0 1
70 17 14 2 1 0
71 12 6 2 1 3
72 11 8 1 0 2
73 18 13 3 2 0
74 12 10 1 0 1
75 19 13 2 3 1
76 12 10 1 0 1
77 14 9 1 2 2
78 14 6 2 3 3
79 30 11 11 2 6
80 19 13 4 1 1
81 45 25 11 7 2
82 18 11 3 2 2
83 19 12 3 2 2
84 17 11 2 2 2
85 9 6 1 0 2
86 17 12 1 3 1
87 23 17 1 5 0
88 8 5 0 0 3
89 15 11 1 2 1
90 34 20 6 6 2
91 11 7 1 1 2
92 13 7 1 2 3
93 16 10 1 3 2
94 25 15 4 4 2
95 24 16 2 5 1
96 20 12 4 2 2
97 56 28 14 10 4
98 24 16 4 3 1
99 5 1 0 0 4
100 17 12 3 1 1
101 24 14 4 4 2
102 19 10 5 1 3
103 35 20 6 7 2
104 11 8 0 1 2
105 17 10 3 3 1
106 22 13 2 5 2
107 15 13 1 1 0
108 17 9 4 1 3
109 37 19 7 8 3
110 18 10 5 0 3
111 30 21 6 3 0
112 16 10 1 3 2
113 14 7 3 1 3
114 15 13 0 2 0
115 22 15 4 2 1
116 16 12 2 1 1
117 16 7 3 2 4
118 20 14 3 2 1
119 12 9 0 1 2
120 15 8 1 3 3
121 16 12 1 2 1
122 14 9 1 2 2
123 18 10 3 2 3
124 10 7 1 0 2
125 44 24 10 8 2
126 34 18 6 8 2
127 17 12 0 4 1
128 43 22 11 7 3
129 19 8 3 4 4
130 20 13 1 4 2
131 19 15 2 2 0
132 35 17 10 4 4
133 22 13 4 3 2
134 11 8 1 1 1
135 22 15 5 1 1
136 17 10 5 0 2
137 17 14 2 1 0
138 12 8 1 1 2
139 11 7 1 1 2
140 11 7 1 1 2
141 19 12 3 2 2
142 16 12 2 1 1
143 9 5 1 0 3
144 16 12 2 1 1
145 20 15 5 0 0
146 10 7 1 0 2
147 15 8 4 0 3
148 34 20 6 6 2
149 21 9 4 4 4
150 22 15 2 4 1
151 15 13 1 1 0
152 30 15 6 5 4
153 17 12 3 1 1
154 12 7 1 1 3
155 14 9 3 0 2
156 35 22 7 5 1
157 25 15 2 6 2
158 27 18 3 5 1
159 35 22 9 3 1
160 28 18 6 3 1
161 13 10 2 0 1
162 15 13 0 2 0
163 15 11 1 2 1
164 9 6 1 0 2
165 15 13 0 2 0
166 10 7 1 0 2
167 12 10 1 0 1
168 14 10 1 1 2
169 14 11 1 1 1
170 14 9 0 3 2
171 13 7 1 2 3
172 13 10 1 1 1
173 10 7 1 0 2
174 13 11 1 0 1
175 44 26 9 8 1
176 28 18 7 2 1
177 16 12 0 3 1
178 12 5 3 0 4
179 21 12 1 6 2
180 14 9 1 2 2
181 24 15 3 4 2
182 34 19 9 4 2
183 28 18 4 5 1
184 19 9 3 5 2
185 15 8 2 2 3
186 32 20 7 4 1
187 13 8 2 1 2
188 10 7 1 0 2
189 15 8 3 1 3
190 17 10 1 3 3
191 35 19 9 4 3
192 12 8 1 1 2
193 12 8 1 1 2
194 23 14 2 5 2
195 25 15 5 3 2
196 12 6 2 1 3
197 9 8 0 0 1
198 18 9 2 4 3
199 11 5 1 1 4
200 14 11 2 0 1
201 18 11 4 1 2
202 11 8 1 0 2
203 21 14 5 1 1
204 24 11 5 4 4
205 11 5 2 0 4
206 47 22 14 7 4
207 21 13 2 4 2
208 17 12 2 2 1
209 10 7 1 0 2
210 29 19 8 1 1
211 16 12 3 0 1
212 12 8 0 2 2
213 9 8 0 0 1
214 23 14 4 3 2
215 16 11 0 3 2
216 10 7 1 0 2
217 40 23 5 10 2
218 29 16 8 3 2
219 22 13 2 5 2
220 14 8 3 1 2
221 25 15 8 0 2
222 17 12 2 2 1
223 14 9 3 0 2
224 21 12 2 5 2
225 11 8 0 1 2
226 12 9 1 0 2
227 19 9 3 4 3
228 14 11 1 1 1
229 22 10 3 5 4
230 20 12 3 3 2
231 20 14 2 3 1
232 21 14 5 1 1
233 14 9 2 1 2
234 17 13 1 3 0
235 9 8 0 0 1
236 15 11 2 1 1
237 26 19 3 4 0
238 12 10 1 0 1
239 21 14 4 2 1
240 9 5 0 1 3
241 37 19 4 11 3
242 14 11 2 0 1
243 20 14 3 2 1
244 45 23 13 6 3
245 12 8 1 1 2
246 17 11 2 2 2
247 13 9 1 1 2
248 19 12 2 3 2
249 26 14 2 7 3
250 39 19 11 5 4
251 9 7 0 0 2
252 20 11 4 3 2
253 9 8 0 0 1
254 33 21 6 5 1
255 16 12 2 1 1
256 8 6 0 0 2
257 30 17 4 7 2
258 28 15 6 4 3
259 29 17 5 5 2
260 17 10 2 2 3
261 44 28 10 6 0
262 20 14 2 3 1
263 12 8 0 2 2
264 12 9 1 0 2
265 20 8 4 4 4
266 28 11 8 4 5
267 19 12 5 0 2
268 16 10 1 3 2
269 12 10 1 0 1
270 11 6 0 2 3
271 16 12 2 1 1
272 17 9 2 3 3
273 9 8 0 0 1
274 13 9 1 1 2
275 21 14 2 4 1
276 13 7 1 2 3
277 18 13 3 1 1
278 16 12 1 2 1
279 23 13 5 3 2
280 12 10 0 1 1
281 16 10 2 2 2
282 16 12 2 1 1
283 15 10 2 1 2
284 22 8 9 1 4
285 19 13 3 2 1
286 12 9 0 1 2
287 30 17 7 4 2
288 13 9 2 0 2
289 19 12 2 3 2
290 12 8 2 0 2
291 15 7 4 1 3
292 30 19 2 8 1
293 15 8 2 2 3
294 16 6 4 1 5
295 20 12 2 4 2
296 28 17 7 2 2
297 34 23 3 8 0
298 23 12 5 3 3
299 19 15 1 3 0
300 28 19 5 4 0
301 21 10 3 5 3
302 14 11 1 1 1
303 19 10 3 3 3
304 13 8 1 2 2
305 16 11 1 2 2
306 21 8 5 4 4
307 9 6 0 1 2
308 18 12 3 3 0
309 7 3 0 0 4
310 16 12 1 2 1
311 14 8 2 1 3
312 13 10 0 2 1
313 21 13 3 4 1
314 22 15 4 2 1
315 19 11 3 3 2
316 12 5 3 0 4
317 15 8 3 1 3
318 24 16 2 5 1
319 21 14 2 4 1
320 9 6 1 0 2
321 12 10 0 1 1
322 26 17 4 4 1
323 17 9 5 0 3
324 24 14 4 4 2
325 9 8 0 0 1
326 20 13 5 1 1
327 11 6 2 0 3
328 21 11 3 4 3
329 13 8 1 2 2
330 14 8 2 1 3
331 20 10 2 5 3
332 9 6 0 1 2
333 24 16 4 3 1
334 14 9 1 2 2
335 21 13 0 6 2
336 31 20 7 3 1
337 13 7 3 0 3
338 9 8 0 0 1
339 16 12 2 1 1
340 24 13 4 4 3
341 29 19 5 4 1
342 22 13 3 4 2
343 22 15 2 4 1
344 22 17 3 2 0
345 15 8 1 3 3
346 18 11 2 3 2
347 11 11 0 0 0
348 25 16 3 5 1
349 11 6 2 0 3
350 15 8 3 1 3
351 18 13 2 2 1
352 15 8 3 1 3
353 17 12 3 1 1
354 24 11 4 5 4
355 20 15 4 1 0
356 28 16 9 1 2
357 36 21 6 7 2
358 30 21 6 3 0
359 14 9 1 2 2
360 12 10 1 0 1
361 37 20 10 5 2
362 15 7 3 2 3
363 12 8 1 1 2
364 35 21 6 6 2
365 14 9 3 0 2
366 12 10 1 0 1
367 20 14 2 3 1
368 14 9 1 2 2
369 22 13 3 4 2
370 54 28 11 12 3
371 21 10 6 2 3
372 12 6 1 2 3
373 10 7 0 1 2
374 27 14 6 4 3
375 18 10 2 3 3
376 19 12 3 2 2
377 10 7 1 0 2
378 10 5 1 1 3
379 17 9 2 3 3
380 9 8 0 0 1
381 22 15 3 3 1
382 19 12 4 2 1
383 18 12 3 2 1
384 9 3 1 1 4
385 22 14 5 1 2
386 14 10 1 2 1
387 26 17 6 2 1
388 17 12 2 2 1
389 13 8 0 3 2
390 11 11 0 0 0
391 22 14 4 2 2
392 26 15 2 7 2
393 29 15 8 3 3
394 11 9 0 1 1
395 14 8 2 1 3
396 14 11 0 2 1
397 15 8 1 3 3
398 21 13 4 2 2
399 15 10 2 1 2
400 12 10 1 0 1
401 12 10 1 0 1
402 9 6 1 0 2
403 20 12 3 3 2
404 12 8 1 1 2
405 24 16 5 2 1
406 12 8 1 1 2
407 12 8 2 0 2
408 22 16 2 4 0
409 23 14 3 4 2
410 38 19 9 7 3
411 12 8 1 1 2
412 29 17 3 7 2
413 29 19 7 2 1
414 18 13 2 2 1
415 14 11 1 1 1
416 10 7 1 0 2
417 22 15 2 4 1
418 25 15 4 4 2
419 22 10 4 4 4
420 19 15 0 4 0
421 8 6 0 0 2
422 8 6 0 0 2
423 11 7 1 1 2
424 12 8 1 1 2
425 29 17 6 4 2
426 13 7 1 2 3
427 16 10 1 3 2
428 11 10 0 0 1
429 13 12 1 0 0
430 37 19 7 8 3
431 14 11 2 0 1
432 20 14 4 1 1
433 19 10 1 5 3
434 14 7 2 2 3
435 13 12 1 0 0
436 25 18 5 2 0
437 17 12 4 0 1
438 13 7 2 1 3
439 16 11 1 2 2
440 30 16 4 7 3
441 23 13 6 2 2
442 13 12 1 0 0
443 13 12 0 1 0
444 16 7 4 1 4
445 26 17 5 3 1
446 25 16 4 4 1
447 20 14 1 4 1
448 19 15 1 3 0
449 31 18 6 5 2
450 15 13 0 2 0
451 23 13 5 3 2
452 28 15 5 5 3
453 12 8 0 2 2
454 12 10 1 0 1
455 15 10 2 1 2
456 23 13 4 5 1
457 16 12 3 0 1
458 14 11 1 1 1
459 12 8 2 0 2
460 14 9 1 2 2
461 9 5 1 0 3
462 19 15 3 1 0
463 21 13 3 3 2
464 10 8 1 0 1
465 13 6 2 2 3
466 29 15 3 8 3
467 18 13 3 1 1
468 19 10 3 3 3
469 15 6 1 4 4
470 30 17 4 7 2
471 23 14 5 2 2
472 13 9 2 0 2
473 25 16 4 4 1
474 10 5 1 1 3
475 20 13 4 2 1
476 18 11 2 4 1
477 9 5 1 0 3
478 14 10 3 0 1
479 18 13 4 0 1
480 13 7 1 2 3
481 20 12 2 4 2
482 23 14 4 3 2
483 10 7 0 1 2
484 14 6 3 1 4
485 25 15 4 4 2
486 13 11 1 0 1
487 22 13 4 3 2
488 15 10 2 1 2
489 25 17 5 3 0
490 20 14 3 2 1
491 21 14 3 3 1
492 23 12 3 5 3
493 15 13 1 1 0
494 14 11 1 1 1
495 17 11 0 4 2
496 19 11 3 2 3
497 29 17 6 4 2
498 9 5 0 1 3
499 20 9 5 2 4
500 14 7 2 2 3
501 29 17 5 6 1
502 13 7 1 2 3
503 29 17 5 5 2
504 17 10 2 3 2
505 19 13 4 1 1
506 15 10 2 1 2
507 14 11 1 1 1
508 23 13 7 1 2
509 35 20 5 8 2
510 35 18 9 5 3
511 39 24 5 9 1
512 24 16 1 6 1
513 12 5 2 1 4
514 16 11 1 3 1
515 28 15 6 4 3
516 17 12 4 0 1
517 7 2 0 1 4
518 19 12 2 3 2
519 8 6 0 0 2
520 8 6 0 0 2
521 28 16 6 4 2
522 22 15 3 3 1
523 29 16 5 5 3
524 11 8 2 0 1
525 12 10 0 1 1
526 18 13 1 3 1
527 14 11 2 0 1
528 9 8 0 0 1
529 13 9 1 1 2
530 17 9 3 2 3
531 11 11 0 0 0
532 24 14 5 3 2
533 22 10 5 4 3
534 23 14 5 2 2
535 22 10 4 4 4
536 27 16 3 6 2
537 19 12 3 2 2
538 19 12 3 2 2
539 37 20 6 8 3
540 23 8 4 5 6
541 37 23 6 7 1
542 20 14 2 3 1
543 12 10 1 0 1
544 21 14 2 4 1
545 12 8 1 1 2
546 15 11 2 1 1
547 25 11 5 5 4
548 7 4 0 0 3
549 19 12 4 1 2
550 17 9 4 2 2
551 15 13 1 1 0
552 19 7 2 5 5
553 22 15 5 1 1
554 24 13 4 4 3
555 14 9 1 2 2
556 21 14 5 1 1
557 11 8 0 1 2
558 56 30 12 11 3
559 8 6 0 0 2
560 11 7 1 1 2
561 16 12 2 1 1
562 17 10 4 1 2
563 16 10 4 0 2
564 20 13 4 1 2
565 15 9 2 2 2
566 18 13 1 3 1
567 20 10 4 3 3
568 18 8 4 2 4
569 13 9 2 1 1
570 31 16 9 3 3
571 9 8 0 0 1
572 18 8 4 3 3
573 13 9 0 2 2
574 20 15 1 4 0
575 16 7 3 2 4
576 22 13 3 4 2
577 8 6 0 0 2
578 29 17 5 5 2
579 7 4 0 0 3
580 19 12 3 2 2
581 19 12 4 1 2
582 20 13 2 4 1
583 12 9 0 1 2
584 10 6 1 0 3
585 26 13 6 5 2
586 16 12 1 3 0
587 16 12 1 2 1
588 30 19 4 6 1
589 47 26 9 9 3
590 17 12 3 1 1
591 15 13 1 1 0
592 31 19 6 5 1
593 8 6 0 0 2
594 17 14 2 1 0
595 24 13 3 5 3
596 26 11 8 4 3
597 10 8 0 1 1
598 23 15 5 2 1
599 24 13 5 3 3
600 21 11 1 6 3
601 10 8 1 0 1
602 12 10 1 0 1
603 12 8 0 2 2
604 22 14 3 3 2
605 8 3 0 1 4
606 24 18 4 2 0
607 20 10 1 6 3
608 32 22 5 5 0
609 30 14 8 4 4
610 13 9 0 2 2
611 15 8 2 2 3
612 16 7 3 2 4
613 24 16 7 0 1
614 21 12 6 1 2
615 22 13 4 3 2
616 33 17 5 8 3
617 25 15 5 4 1
618 16 7 5 0 4
619 21 13 3 3 2
620 25 16 6 2 1
621 20 15 3 2 0
622 20 10 3 5 2
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1000 20 14 3 2 1
Yeah :/ Mastery ftw?
Even going EXTREME mastery stacking, and ending with approx 137k health and 72% average killing blow goes up to 21.5 o_O
(All health values are unbuffed)
- Onewinged
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:28 am
Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
I think you're correct in your conclusions regarding Mastery.
However, the big issue is a lack of consistency in raiding. HPS is not always the same, nor is the damage type (think Magmaw tanking vs. being in his mouth).
EDIT: That's why I used this while tanking in that encounter. Stam that's aways there for the Mangle and an on-use for tanking with the armor debuff.
So while it's definitely nice to have a lot of block you can't get away from a far amount of stamina simply for survivability purposes.
However, the big issue is a lack of consistency in raiding. HPS is not always the same, nor is the damage type (think Magmaw tanking vs. being in his mouth).
EDIT: That's why I used this while tanking in that encounter. Stam that's aways there for the Mangle and an on-use for tanking with the armor debuff.
So while it's definitely nice to have a lot of block you can't get away from a far amount of stamina simply for survivability purposes.
- Doxa
- Maintankadonor
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- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:03 am
Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Your simulations are a bit narrow in focus. Mastery will always come out ahead in situations with:
All of which you've assumed here.
The case with 50k hits is maybe the most realistic, but even there it's too limited; heroic bosses can hit for 70k in many cases, and there's environmental/breath damage to consider in many encounters. Furthermore, any simulation that treats healing as constant is going to be suspect, simply because that's not how healing works in real encounters. Healing is particularly tough to model, since it will vary a lot from class to class and player to player.
The first couple simulations are essentially meaningless RNG simulators, because the only way to die is to take a string of 2-3 unblocked hits. You're getting 20k heals and potentially 33k damage every 2 seconds; the only way to die there is to not avoid or block ~1 out of every 3 hits. That's a situation in which you will almost never die with an actual healer behind you, because a real healer can easily react to that and provide increased HPS or external cooldowns during those spikes.
- 100% blockable damage
- Relatively low hit sizes compared to hit points
- Constant healing intake
All of which you've assumed here.
The case with 50k hits is maybe the most realistic, but even there it's too limited; heroic bosses can hit for 70k in many cases, and there's environmental/breath damage to consider in many encounters. Furthermore, any simulation that treats healing as constant is going to be suspect, simply because that's not how healing works in real encounters. Healing is particularly tough to model, since it will vary a lot from class to class and player to player.
The first couple simulations are essentially meaningless RNG simulators, because the only way to die is to take a string of 2-3 unblocked hits. You're getting 20k heals and potentially 33k damage every 2 seconds; the only way to die there is to not avoid or block ~1 out of every 3 hits. That's a situation in which you will almost never die with an actual healer behind you, because a real healer can easily react to that and provide increased HPS or external cooldowns during those spikes.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
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theckhd - Moderator
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
theckhd wrote:Your simulations are a bit narrow in focus. Mastery will always come out ahead in situations with:
- 100% blockable damage
- Relatively low hit sizes compared to hit points
- Constant healing intake
All of which you've assumed here.
I agree that this analysis is overly narrow. But, in my mind all that is necessary to decide to go for mastery over stamina is that:
1)Mastery fares better than stamina when the conditions that you listed obtain, and
2)The conditions listed obtain often enough that we can use CDs to mitigate the majority of situations where they do not obtain.
So, for what it's worth these sims at least seem to demonstrate the first condition. I'd like to see it run with boss hit sizes ranging upwards so that we can see where the breaking point is, though.
- Sparan
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:37 am
Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Sparan wrote:2)The conditions listed obtain often enough that we can use CDs to mitigate the majority of situations where they do not obtain.
This is not true in practice, though. Look at any parse of a heroic raid encounter and you'll find that the boss hit values are larger than anything in the sims.
I'm not saying the simulations are bad, simply that they don't reflect the sort of raid encounter where you actually care about the results. They apply to situations that you pretty heavily overgear, and you're not at much risk of dying in the first place.
And as I said, there's still the issue of the healing model being unrealistic. You could also add cooldown usage to that as well - this simulates a brain-dead tank that doesn't use cooldowns at all. If you had the tank pop one of his available cooldowns (of which we have 3-6 on our own, and many more from outside sources) every time he dropped below 50% health, he probably wouldn't die in any of the simulations.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
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theckhd - Moderator
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Well, that all depends upon what you mean when you say "Relatively low hit sizes compared to hit points". I mean, presumably what you mean is something like "low enough hit sizes that stamina doesn't become better than mastery", and that's exactly where I agreed that the focus was narrow, and that the sims should be expanded to include more realistic hit sizes. I think that sims of this sort can do a passable job of demonstrating whether or not in an 'everything else being equal and under control' sort of scenario that mastery fares as well or better than stamina with just some number-tweaking.
- Sparan
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:37 am
Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Sparan wrote:Well, that all depends upon what you mean when you say "Relatively low hit sizes compared to hit points".
When the boss is hitting you for less than 1/5 of your hit points, that's definitely "relatively low." When your raw EH outstrips boss hit size by that margin, mitigation has a strong advantage (because your chance of dying to spikes is little to none).
The 50k hit sim is the only one that even comes close to a reasonable approximation of raid bosses that threaten tanks.
In addition, encounters generally aren't designed such that incoming DTPS is higher than the possible incoming HPS. If that were the case, you'd never kill a boss. Generally, incoming HPS is larger than incoming DTPS on average for an encounter. What kills a tank are the small windows where that's not the case - the healer runs OOM, has to move, or what not, and incoming HPS drops significantly, or incoming DTPS spikes up significantly ahead of HPS due to boss specials, a string of unblocked hits, etc. In that sense, the last sims are far more relevant than the earlier ones, even though they ignore pretty significant real-world factors.
That's one of the major limitations of this sort of model - any time you assume constant boss damage and constant healer supply, you're going to get a skewed view of how combat dynamics work. You really can't get an accurate model of a death scenario by abstracting away the healer and tank as robots that have no decision-making abilities.
That's not to say that mastery isn't strong - certainly it's our strongest available secondary stat right now, and I'd argue that for the situations the sim is modeling the results are accurate. The question is just whether that translates over to a real raid environment that involves living, breathing tanks and healers that can react to damage spikes with abilities designed to counter them and encounter mechanics that deal unblockable damage.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
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theckhd - Moderator
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
I think the HPS > DTPS model is OK for the most part, but it tends to assume unlimited healer-seconds. I think a rather important factor to consider is the impact of reduced DTPS on available healer-seconds over the fight, with regard to the capability of reduced DTPS to avoid OOM scenarios.
Reducing DTPS extends time-to-OOM for healers, which can mean the difference in a healing-intensive fight. Increasing stamina does not extend time-to-OOM and can promote the OOM-death scenario.
Unfortunately, that's a rather complicated variable to account for.
Reducing DTPS extends time-to-OOM for healers, which can mean the difference in a healing-intensive fight. Increasing stamina does not extend time-to-OOM and can promote the OOM-death scenario.
Unfortunately, that's a rather complicated variable to account for.
- Koatanga
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
maybe a useful exercise would be to identify some crossover points in terms of where mastery or stamina yield more ttl depending on different blockable vs unblockable damage ratios?
maybe cooldowns can be discounted in such models because of their universal mitigation?
maybe cooldowns can be discounted in such models because of their universal mitigation?
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snoweagle - Maintankadonor
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
Koatanga wrote:Reducing DTPS extends time-to-OOM for healers, which can mean the difference in a healing-intensive fight. Increasing stamina does not extend time-to-OOM and can promote the OOM-death scenario.
This assertion keeps getting repeated despite being wrong. Healers are not robots. They have mana efficient heals (generally slow) and mana-inefficient heals (generally fast). More stamina extends the time your healer has to react to a spike, which can impact his choice of heals.
I'm not sure why so many people seem to miss this point, because it's a pretty obvious one. Your healer's mana-efficient heal is designed such that they can cast it almost indefinitely without going OOM. As long as the HPS generated by that heal is greater than the average incoming DTPS, that healer could keep you alive indefinitely. The only thing that prevents this is your finite health pool, which a period of increased DTPS can exhaust. Increasing that health pool makes it harder to exhaust, increasing the range during which your healer can use his mana-efficient heal, and extending time-to-OOM.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
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theckhd - Moderator
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
snoweagle wrote:maybe cooldowns can be discounted in such models because of their universal mitigation?
They're still on-demand mitigation, which makes a difference.
Example: Do you pop every one of your cooldowns as soon as they're available to preserve healer mana and reduce total damage taken? No, probably not; you save them for predictable bursts, or for emergency situations to give the healer more time to react. That's a pretty important detail to simply ignore. It acknowledges that healer reaction and choice is significant.
Again, if you apply cooldowns appropriately to the initial sims, I'd bet you live almost 100% of the time in all of the sims. Does that mean that it's irrelevant whether you gem mastery or stamina? No, probably not; it's more likely to mean that the simulation isn't comprehensive enough to give a meaningful result.
It's not like we haven't seen this situation before. Last time, we were so focused on how good Stamina was that we neglected Armor, until someone pointed out the flaws in our underlying assumptions. This time around, it seems that it's Stamina's turn to be the whipping boy.
In reality, they're both good, and it's probably better in practice to strike a balance between stamina and mastery than to mindlessly stack one or the other to the exclusion of all else.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Call to Arms 5.x, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
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theckhd - Moderator
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
hmm I was just talking about cooldowns in relation to the effect of damage type on ttl in a spike or noheal situation.
If its true that more or less magical damage for example makes one or the other better for a fight, as (non trinket)cooldowns affect both, my understanding is that they wouldn't help find the damage type ratio where one stat becomes better than the other, because its a flat ttl increase whatever the damage mixture happens to be...
If its true that more or less magical damage for example makes one or the other better for a fight, as (non trinket)cooldowns affect both, my understanding is that they wouldn't help find the damage type ratio where one stat becomes better than the other, because its a flat ttl increase whatever the damage mixture happens to be...
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snoweagle - Maintankadonor
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Re: Simulation: Stamina vs Mastery
I think a particularly glaring omission in the simulations is the exclusion of large attacks not linked to the boss' autoattack.
Under no realistic circumstances will a progression tank only be receiving 20k hps - in extreme circumstances, I can estimate that the raid is easily outputting 100k hps on the tank (eg Chimaeron feud).
Furthermore, under no realistic circumstances will a progression tank die to boss autoattacks while being healed (except for the extreme case of Chimaeron). It's always from not being topped up due to [insert raid mechanic] or a combination of autoattacks + a large additional attack (like magmaw's mangle).
For reference, heroic magmaw hits for ~90k unblocked, heroic chimaeron hits for about 170k unblocked. Simple simulations like these are just too basic to model real raid situations.
Under no realistic circumstances will a progression tank only be receiving 20k hps - in extreme circumstances, I can estimate that the raid is easily outputting 100k hps on the tank (eg Chimaeron feud).
Furthermore, under no realistic circumstances will a progression tank die to boss autoattacks while being healed (except for the extreme case of Chimaeron). It's always from not being topped up due to [insert raid mechanic] or a combination of autoattacks + a large additional attack (like magmaw's mangle).
For reference, heroic magmaw hits for ~90k unblocked, heroic chimaeron hits for about 170k unblocked. Simple simulations like these are just too basic to model real raid situations.
- Kishandra
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