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Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Doxa » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:18 pm

Jaitee wrote:what this fight taut me...


Pretty much the first sign of a good tank.
Tanking Trash on Doxa with Consecration(Rank3) Since 2007, on Doxah with Thunderclap since 2009 and on Doxeh with Death and Decay since 2010

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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Koatanga » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:22 pm

There are really only 2 commodities that determine the outcome of a fight these days. They are healer mana and time.

As long a your raid has the DPS to take down the boss in the allotted time without pulling aggro off of you, every other move you make should be to preserve healers' mana.

If your DPS determines the success or fail of the fight, then you should think about doing more of it. Otherwise, help the healers out as much as you can.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Bept » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:46 am

I did some testing this morning.

Healing threat seems to be working as expected.
All healing counts for 50% threat. Damage counts for 100%

When RF is up, you get the 200% bonus applied to healing threat.

Code: Select all
Threat: 0
Divine Light heals Bept for 16293
Threat: 8146.50
-- 50% of Heal counted as threat --
Bept gains Bept's Righteous Fury
Threat: 8146.50
Divine Light heals Bept for 16024
Threat: 32182.50 (+ 24036.00)
-- 150% of Heal counted as threat (or 200% plus the 50% value) --


As for Word of Glory vs. Shield of the Righteous for threat:

Unbuffed, 3 charges of Holy Power:
Code: Select all
Word of Glory heals Bept for 16648
-- 24972 threat gain


Unbuffed, 3 charges of Holy Power:
Code: Select all
Bept's Shield of the Righteous hits Muddied Water Elemental for 16427 Holy.(Critical)
-- 49281 threat gain


So SotR will do about double the TPS of Word of Glory (50% for healing threat).
But Word of Glory isn't bad either, consider you're getting a free heal.

I'm not sure where the 25% number reported came from, but it no longer seems to be the case.

I'm using the following macro to report raw threat numbers using the API:
Code: Select all
/script local _, _, _, _, threatvalue = UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player", "target"); ChatFrame1:AddMessage('Threat: ' .. tostring(threatvalue));


Keep in mind that the value is reported as an integer to speed up the math so if you see something like "100000" it's really "1000.00" threat.

Also keep in mind that there is a bit of lag in the macro seeing the threat added (like .5 to 1 sec) so just spam it until you see the value change.

Edit:

More things I forgot to mention and discovered this morning while getting these numbers (which you guys prob. already know...)

Also keep in mind that healing threat is only calculated on the amount healed. So any over-healing done won't be added in to threat. Make sure you're low enough of health when testing to get accurate numbers.

Unlike damage threat healing threat is also distributed globally across all mobs that you have threat on. So it's a bit like an AoE in that respect. If you have more than one mob that's attacking you your numbers will be off.

Now that we have unbuffed numbers I'd be interested in seeing what we're seeing for WoG and SotR when fully buffed. I feel like WoG is typically doing more in terms of raw numbers than SotR but that could be wishful thinking :)

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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby lythac » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:01 am

Bept wrote:I'm not sure where the 25% number reported came from, but it no longer seems to be the case.


Pre Cata* Druids, Priests and Shamans used to generate 0.5 threat per 1 healing, Paladins used to generate 0.25 threat per healing.

*Not entirely suer when it changed but was like that for Vanilla and TBC for sure.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Bept » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:26 am

Oh yeah, I hit Gamon to get some numbers:

Word of Glory: Max 22598 (and 28951 when it crits), 21093 avg.
Shield of the Righteous: Max 13025 (and 16427 when it crits), 11000 avg.

I don't know why, but I'm totally seeing around 20K avg for Word of Glory (or 30K threat), and
10K avg. for Shield of the Righteous (or 30K threat).

So raw TPS-wise they're equivalant for me, but Word of Glory gives the added bonus of healing (at the cost of being split accross mobs, which may be a benefit, since single target aggro doesn't seem to ever be an issue).

I'll need to get a bigger data set, but from this fight it looks like 28K crit (42K threat) for Word of Glory and 16K crit (48K threat) for Shield of the Righteous, so for crits it seems that SotR has a slight advantage, and that may continue to be the case as stats scale.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Doxa » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:36 am

Bept wrote:I did some testing this morning.


Thanks Bept! This is extremely helpful.
Tanking Trash on Doxa with Consecration(Rank3) Since 2007, on Doxah with Thunderclap since 2009 and on Doxeh with Death and Decay since 2010

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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:49 am

Well, for one thing, you probably don't have a lot of Vengeance AP in that test, which will skew the numbers considerably. WoG and SotR scale differently with AP, and I'm not sure that WoG scales at all with vengeance AP anymore.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Doxa » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:58 am

If it doesn't scale with Vengeance AP anymore what accounts for the dramatic shifts in healing amount while boss tanking? As I mentioned the other day in another thread it isn't uncommon for me to see heals of > 40k while boss tanking. I've even seen them as high as 59k.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Bept » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:07 am

It does indeed seem to scale with AP. I don't have time to do a good test right now but from what I just saw it seems to scale with increase in AP by 75% (ish). Does that make any sense?
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:41 am

Doxa wrote:If it doesn't scale with Vengeance AP anymore what accounts for the dramatic shifts in healing amount while boss tanking? As I mentioned the other day in another thread it isn't uncommon for me to see heals of > 40k while boss tanking. I've even seen them as high as 59k.


There were some blue posts stating that it wasn't supposed to, which is why I'm skeptical.

Those 59k heals are almost certainly crits, which would put the base heal at <40k. But it's still pretty strong evidence that the heal is scaling with Vengeance AP, since that seems like too much to be accounted for in raid buffs. I'm pretty sure that on a dummy, you won't see more than about 15-20k crits, and tripling your AP through Vengeance would be consistent with bringing that up into the 50k+ regime.

What I could really use is some testing of the exact AP and SP coefficients for WoG. If someone could parse 10 minutes of CS-WoG-CS-WoG on a dummy in 3 different gear sets:
  1. Naked
  2. Naked + Int gear (no str or ap gain)
  3. Tanking or Ret gear (high AP, SP)

I could calculate coefficients that are close enough for our purposes. Make sure to note the AP and SP of each gear set.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Doxa » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:43 am

I could do that sometime today as I've got both tanking gear and SP gear.

I'll see what I can put together.

EDIT: I lied; wont' be until tonight. I forgot about a few lunch meetings I've got scheduled.
Tanking Trash on Doxa with Consecration(Rank3) Since 2007, on Doxah with Thunderclap since 2009 and on Doxeh with Death and Decay since 2010

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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Bept » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:37 am

theckhd wrote:What I could really use is some testing of the exact AP and SP coefficients for WoG. If someone could parse 10 minutes of CS-WoG-CS-WoG on a dummy in 3 different gear sets:
  1. Naked
  2. Naked + Int gear (no str or ap gain)
  3. Tanking or Ret gear (high AP, SP)


I knew it. Theck just wants people to get naked... :?

What do you guys use for log parsing? The log buffer is very small. Is there a way to make the client write it to a file and just grep the info out of it?
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby snoweagle » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:44 am

/combatlog will start logging to a file in your wow install location (depends on OS)

the site typically used to parse is http://www.worldoflogs.com -- it launches a little java app that will parse and load onto the site for detailed graphs,

sort of a public 'splunk for raids' if that makes any sense....
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby Bept » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:45 am

Nice.
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Re: Healing (WoG) and TPS, do we care?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:40 am

There's a quick WoL How-To in the Call to Arms thread. I can add you to the maintankadin "guild" if you request to join.
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