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Imp Dev Aura vs Shield Spec

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Imp Dev Aura vs Shield Spec

Postby Dorvan » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:59 pm

With Redoubt becoming less and less useful, expcially with the coming of Imp HS, I've been starting to consider actually grabbing Imp Dev Aura instead of Redoubt. Of course, this would mean dropping Shield Spec, so I decided to compare the two, and these are my results. I haven't generalized them at all, but hopefully running the number on my gear will illustrate at least how the calculation can be done.

First of all, I calculated the effective damage reduction I'd see by picking up Imp Dev Aura. That would be:

(DR w/ Imp Dev - DR w/out Imp Dev) / (1 - DR w/out Imp Dev)

I'm at 13434 armor with standard Dev Aura up, so my DR against a level 73 mob (credit to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=75381044&sid=1#3 for the formula) is

Without Imp Dev:
13434/(13434+11960) = 52.90%

With Dev Aura:
13778/(13778+11960) = 53.53%

Effective Damage Reduction:
(.5353-.5290)/(1-.5290) = 1.34%

Ok, so Imp Dev Aura for me would give me a 1.34% damage reduction compared to what I see right now...how does this compare to Shield Spec?

Well, I block for about 190 w/out shield spec and 250 with it (a little low, I know). Thus I gain 60 block value. In raids with Holy Shield up, I block about 54.84% of the time and avoid the rest, but when I avoid a hit the extra DR doesn't help me either, so we can compare the two figures directly. The breakeven point for these two stats comes when 1.34% of the hit I'm taking (post armor) is 60, or in other words when the hit is 4477 post-armor mitigation. More than that and Imp Dev Aura is better, less and Shield Spec wins out.

Based on this, Shield Spec is, unfortunately, still the clear winner (and will scale up as my block value does). Is it worth 8 talent points vs. 5 for Imp Dev Aura? That I haven't decided yet.
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Postby Eloff » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:05 pm

Nice post!

The best answer would really be 'both' but not many of us have that many 'extra' points laying around...

How nice would it be to reword Redoubt to: Increases block % (or even block rating!) by 2/4/6/8/10% when holy shield is active...
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Postby honorshammer » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:39 am

Eloff wrote:Nice post!

The best answer would really be 'both' but not many of us have that many 'extra' points laying around...

How nice would it be to reword Redoubt to: Increases block % (or even block rating!) by 2/4/6/8/10% when holy shield is active...


I'd love that, but as a Tier 1 talent, it would need a use for those people who only too 11 points in Prot.

Redoubt
Increases your chance to block by 1/2/3/4/5%, and 2/4/6/8/10% when Holy Shield is active.

Then because of the synergy, you make Shield Spec a prereq for BoSanc.
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Postby Lore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:49 am

Yeah, and that's even with a pretty low block value. 30% of 300 base block value is an increase of 100 more - making the breakeven point 7462. That's about what the "heavy hitter" raid bosses hit for.
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Re: Imp Dev Aura vs Shield Spec

Postby Fridmarr » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:28 am

The problem I have with spending talent points on imp devo is that I get it for free during every raid anyhow. So I guess it'd benefit me during heroics or something, but I'm thinking of working on amassing a high block value, so for now I'll keep shield spec. Hopefully, they change redoubt, it's beyond dumb if they don't.
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Postby Vanen » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:32 pm

When I calculated the benefit of Imp Devo on my build I only got 0.6% increase.

For five talent points it seems a bit ridiculous. I'd rather get 10% more Strength if I was going to waste those talent points. Lawl.

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Postby Lore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:50 pm

Also keep in mind that your character sheet DR is only half of what's going on with armor... there's lots of talk in the mit vs avoidance thread about that.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:58 pm

Lore wrote:Also keep in mind that your character sheet DR is only half of what's going on with armor... there's lots of talk in the mit vs avoidance thread about that.


Well, you can directly compare armor and block value given a hit of a certain size, they will both reduce some fixed amount of damage you take from a given hit, so you can simply look at which one provides more reduction.
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Postby Lore » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:09 pm

Yeah, don't remember why I felt like mentioning that tbh >.> Been a weird day.
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Postby Dreamcrusher » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:58 pm

Also, when you figure that Redoubt is not COMPLETELY useless, it's a clear choice.


In a vacuum, Shield Spec vs. Devo might be a valid argument, but having redoubt for situations where 8 holy shield charges isn't enough (aoe pulls) and even during the 'lag' period where Holy Shield ran out and you need to reapply is an easy choice in my mind.
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Postby Fridmarr » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:02 pm

Dreamcrusher wrote:Also, when you figure that Redoubt is not COMPLETELY useless, it's a clear choice.


In a vacuum, Shield Spec vs. Devo might be a valid argument, but having redoubt for situations where 8 holy shield charges isn't enough (aoe pulls) and even during the 'lag' period where Holy Shield ran out and you need to reapply is an easy choice in my mind.


Redoubt isn't completely useless but it is really really close. If redoubt wasn't a requirement for shield spec, I don't think I'd have it after the patch. 8 point Shield Specialization FTL!!!
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Postby Kathryn » Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:55 am

Dorvan wrote:
Lore wrote:Also keep in mind that your character sheet DR is only half of what's going on with armor... there's lots of talk in the mit vs avoidance thread about that.


Well, you can directly compare armor and block value given a hit of a certain size, they will both reduce some fixed amount of damage you take from a given hit, so you can simply look at which one provides more reduction.


You can't really.. Because the ratio of comparison betwenn Block Value and Armor varies with th amount of each hits. Armor comes into play on RAW dmg and makes your HP matters more. Block Value comes into play after Damage Reduction and shave a specific number off the dmg. I say its apple to oranges, both serving the same "eating" purpose.

Apples and Oranges are both Fruits that i eat and make my belly full, but they don't taste the same and i can eat the Apple straight on, yet i have to peel the orange first before eating it.. So i peel the orange while eating the apple and when the peeling is done i eat the orange. Now my belly is full.. It wouln't be full if i had eaten only 1.
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Postby Arcand » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:00 am

Kathryn wrote:Apples and Oranges are both Fruits that i eat and make my belly full, but they don't taste the same and i can eat the Apple straight on, yet i have to peel the orange first before eating it.. So i peel the orange while eating the apple and when the peeling is done i eat the orange. Now my belly is full.. It wouln't be full if i had eaten only 1.


It's only ten o'clock, but I'm still going to predict that's the funniest metaphor I'll see today. ;)
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:08 am

Kathryn wrote:You can't really.. Because the ratio of comparison betwenn Block Value and Armor varies with th amount of each hits. Armor comes into play on RAW dmg and makes your HP matters more. Block Value comes into play after Damage Reduction and shave a specific number off the dmg. I say its apple to oranges, both serving the same "eating" purpose.


That's why I qualified my statement by saying "for a given hit size". The function of the two stats is the same, and all of the hits you take in a raid should be blocks, so for any situation either the armor or the block value is strictly better for you, it just depends oin your current gear and the size of the hits you're taking. Looking at in general what kind of hits you're taking can help you decide which stat will be more beneficial to you, though it looks like in the case of talent choices Shield Spec is the clear winner.
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Postby Kathryn » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:24 am

Dorvan wrote: though it looks like in the case of talent choices Shield Spec is the clear winner.


I made space in my build to get both, as i feel i need more Mitigation than threat right now.

Now, i have to decided if i get 1h spec or reckoning but not both comes next patch..
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