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A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Yelena » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:04 pm

theckhd wrote:Is there still a difference between beta and PTR regarding Holy Power retention after a ShoR miss?

If not, what's the "standard" behavior now? Do we keep all 3? Do we lose 1? 2?

<edit> Also, a missed ShoR does consume Sacred Duty, correct?

PTR: We keep all 3, and yes it consumes Sacred Duty on a miss. I can't speak for Beta.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:41 pm

Arianne wrote:Here's a level 80 PTR parse with SoT and a 0/36/0 spec naked except for a dalaran sword. I skipped Imp HoJ instead of EG/GbtL. Str 156, Agi 86, Sta 165, Int 97, Spirit 104. Melee 95-132. DPS 80.9 Speed 1.40. 0 haste, 0 hit, 2.31% crit chance, 0 expertise. 180 spellpower. Using a Kite Shield (white, 702 armor, no stats) in off hand.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/jwhg ... details/0/

I ran out of mana a lot, so I'll do another parse with CS, HW and consecration. It really sucks to miss a judgement. If you have Sacred Duty and miss with a ShoR then the Sacred Duty buff is consumed even if ShoR didn't connect. ShoR was not consuming Holy Power on misses/dodge/parries.


Thanks, I was able to use your data and some educated guesses based on the lvl 85 data sets to determine approximate lvl 80 base damage values. Here's what I get after adjustment:

Code: Select all
ShoR     638   644      6     1
CS       171   171      0     0
JoT      276   276      0     0
AS      3054  3093     39     1
HW      2355  2370     15     1
HoW     1290     0  -1290  -100
Exor    1157  1142    -15    -1
SoT       20    20      0     2
SoR       15    16      1     9
SoJ        7     7      0     0
Cens     438   438      0     0
Cons    1291  1290     -1    -0
HotR      20    20      0     2
HaNova   717   711     -6    -1
Melee     67    67      0     0


The only adjustments from the level 85 data that wowhead had wrong were:

Cons base goes from 101.2->91.2
HW base goes from 2501->2301
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Arianne » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:48 pm

Will the Thrym datasets work for HoW damage or should I do something else to get that? Do you need anything further? I don't have beta access so I can't do the 82-83 level+1 datasets.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:56 pm

Well, it's easiest for me if you just use the naked+Dalaran Sword setup, so that I don't have to code in all of your gear. However, since it's spell damage, any dummy should work (no armor mitigation to worry about). If you can find any dummy at <20% health somewhere and get 20-30 casts off, that would do it.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Bastien » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:00 pm

tlitp wrote:Bumping #4. The test is very simple (get naked; get a fast 1H; autoattack from the front a level 85 dummy), but rather tedious (the log needs to have at very least 1000 swings; 2000+ is preferable). You can even scrap the class requirement - level 83/84 warr/dk/rog/enh will do just fine.

This insistence is justified by two factors :
  • it is much easier to carry out an "exhaustive" test on dummies, rather than in the wild (hai there, Thrym)
  • after hitting 85 on live, people will certainly have other priorities


I can do this tonight after work for the level+1 data, if someone doesn't get it to you before then. One of my paladins is 84. I don't have an 83 atm, so I would have to level one of my other 80s (currently have an enhance shaman at 80 as my mining/JC mule) to get the level+2 data.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:45 pm

Bastien wrote:
tlitp wrote:Bumping #4. The test is very simple (get naked; get a fast 1H; autoattack from the front a level 85 dummy), but rather tedious (the log needs to have at very least 1000 swings; 2000+ is preferable). You can even scrap the class requirement - level 83/84 warr/dk/rog/enh will do just fine.

I can do this tonight after work for the level+1 data, if someone doesn't get it to you before then. One of my paladins is 84.

Excellent. With Bastien working on the level 84 data set, the second (83) is rendered unnecessary.

Arianne/Kierly : You two have already given a lot of help. There's one more thing to test, if you find 20-25 mins at disposition.
  • level : 80 (PTR)
  • spec : anything that has 3/3 Rule of Law
  • gear : basically Ret-centric gear; stack up copious amounts of crit rating (the more, the better); anything else is less relevant
  • weapon : any low-level weapon
  • seal : any
  • buffs : BoK (it adds a bit of Agility)
  • how-to : attack from the front a boss-level target (use only autoattacks and CS; weave in some J casts in order to keep the mana up; the important thing here is CS, try to use it on cooldown)
  • goal : you can stop after at least 300 CS casts (casts, not connects)

What to report : simply upload the log, I'll get the relevant info from there. From the character panel I only need your total (physical) crit chance.

Thanks.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby jere » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:52 pm

theckhd wrote:
jere wrote:You basically press it once and it will add a threat entry to your combat log everytime the combat log updates. Be aware that updates don't necessarily happen right when the ability hits. Sometimes you have to wait a few seconds and combat log updates to see the threat change, so space accordingly. Also note how the numbers are displayed: 600 = 6 threat (read as 6.00 rather than 600), so if an ability hits for 1200, then without RF up, it will generate 120000 threat in the combatlog.

Things I found on the PTR:

RF is 125% (2.25 multiplier) and affects both physical and holy damage equally.
Mana from Sanc generates 0 threat. (same as before)
Mana from Judgement of the Wise generates threat at 50% of the rate of damage (same as before)
Some buffs, like seals for example, generate threat = level they are learned (modified by RF of course).
Buffs are modified by RF (my Ashen Verdict Ring proc generates 60.00 threat before RF and 135.00 after RF)


Wait, your Ring proc generates 135 threat, or 13500 threat? I assume you're using your notation, but that seems like an awful lot of threat from a ring proc.

I suspect JotW will be fixed to not generate threat as well, but we should keep an eye on it.

The raw number is 13500, but that is read 135.00 (it's a form of fixed point notation where the decimal is assumed to be 2 digits in from the right).

The ring procs 135 threat, which shows up as 13500 in the UI using that macro. If you want the raw numbers: I started with 722075 UI threat (read: 7220.75) and after the ring proc I had 735575 UI threat (read 7355.75).

Just divide the raw numbers by 100 to get the the actual values. Whenever I am using raw numbers from the UI you won't see a decimal. I will always use a decimal when talking about the actual values.

As an example, without RF up, a 1200 damage hit will generate 120000 raw UI threat, which is in reality 1200.00 threat (1 threat per damage done).

It's just the way the Blizzard UI returns the number I think. I didn't make the macro myself unfortunately.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Bastien » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:38 pm

tlitp wrote:scaling vs level+1/level+2. Scrap the spec/gear requirements,scrap the seal, all that is needed is a level 83/84 paladin that autoattacks a level 85 dummy. (again, for at least an hour)


Just to be clear, so the time isn't wasted, do I need to acquire a white weapon? Or should I be boxing the dummy?

And you want a null (0/0/0) spec, correct?
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:42 pm

jere wrote:Just divide the raw numbers by 100 to get the the actual values. Whenever I am using raw numbers from the UI you won't see a decimal. I will always use a decimal when talking about the actual values.

Ah, I see what happened. I misread your notation. That makes much more sense.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:49 pm

If anyone would be so kind as to check the new and improved AP scaling of HotR for me, I'd appreciate it. The usual would be good - naked except for a weapon (dalaran sword ideal), 0/38/0 spec, 50 or so swings should be enough. Then equip an INT item and repeat, and then a STR item and repeat again. Three data points should be enough to figure out the new coefficients.

<edit> Obviously this can only be done after they patch in the changes they posted about. So wait to do this until HotR is on a 3-second cooldown...
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby steadypal » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:48 pm

did the 3sec cs and ap hotr go to ptr? its not on beta
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Rasmfrackn » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:50 pm

Ghostcrawler mentioned it as a "we just come up with this over lunch after seeing all this feedback" sort of way, so it's late-breaking news that isn't implemented anywhere (that we can see) yet.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Yelena » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:00 pm

If indeed this change was borne of yesterday's discussion, at best they have an internal build with it currently. Something like that will require a patch before we see it, my guess would be later this week at the earliest.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby steadypal » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:35 pm

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l9k2 ... etails/30/

2.2 speed ilvl 20 axe

0/0/8 spec

skull dummy

8.16 hit
26 expertise
32.24 crit


hrm mighta screwed this up, cause it was on beta, and a skull dummy on beta, just went back and u said ptr,,, hrm
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Bastien » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:09 am

Bastien wrote:
tlitp wrote:scaling vs level+1/level+2. Scrap the spec/gear requirements,scrap the seal, all that is needed is a level 83/84 paladin that autoattacks a level 85 dummy. (again, for at least an hour)


Just to be clear, so the time isn't wasted, do I need to acquire a white weapon? Or should I be boxing the dummy?

And you want a null (0/0/0) spec, correct?


OK, I have the log, but I won't be able to upload it until tomorrow night. It may not be as pure as desired, but hopefully it gives you the data needed. I didn't get an answer on the spec and/or weapon in time, so I'm just boxing the dummy with a "normal" tank spec (I'll post screenies). Also, there are no level 85 dummies (that I could find) so the log is for a boss level (88?) dummy. It's for almost 2 hours - as long as I could maintain my "not away" status. If you need something different, let me know, and I'll do what I can.
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