A Call to Arms - Cataclysm Mechanics testing

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby jere » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:21 pm

Arianne wrote:Alright, I figured there was a more elegant way. Someone had a macro somewhere I thought. It appears that we have the same 125% threat modifier now. An exorcism for roughly 2450 was causing roughly 5500 threat. WoG was causing 1 to 1 threat value (split across X mob where X was 1 in my case). HotR was causing threat as if you just added the two component parts together (ie: 200 physical + 1100 holy caused roughly 3k threat).


On the PTR I use:

Code: Select all
/run local o,m=COMBATLOG.AddMessage function COMBATLOG.AddMessage(s,...) local t=select(5,UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player","target")) m=(select(1,...))..(t and " ("..t.." Threat)" or "") o(s,m,select(2,...)) end


You basically press it once and it will add a threat entry to your combat log everytime the combat log updates. Be aware that updates don't necessarily happen right when the ability hits. Sometimes you have to wait a few seconds and combat log updates to see the threat change, so space accordingly. Also note how the numbers are displayed: 600 = 6 threat (read as 6.00 rather than 600), so if an ability hits for 1200, then without RF up, it will generate 120000 threat in the combatlog.

Things I found on the PTR:

RF is 125% (2.25 multiplier) and affects both physical and holy damage equally.
Mana from Sanc generates 0 threat. (same as before)
Mana from Judgement of the Wise generates threat at 50% of the rate of damage (same as before)
Some buffs, like seals for example, generate threat = level they are learned (modified by RF of course).
Buffs are modified by RF (my Ashen Verdict Ring proc generates 60.00 threat before RF and 135.00 after RF)
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Sabindeus » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:42 pm

jere wrote:
Arianne wrote:Alright, I figured there was a more elegant way. Someone had a macro somewhere I thought. It appears that we have the same 125% threat modifier now. An exorcism for roughly 2450 was causing roughly 5500 threat. WoG was causing 1 to 1 threat value (split across X mob where X was 1 in my case). HotR was causing threat as if you just added the two component parts together (ie: 200 physical + 1100 holy caused roughly 3k threat).


On the PTR I use:

Code: Select all
/run local o,m=COMBATLOG.AddMessage function COMBATLOG.AddMessage(s,...) local t=select(5,UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player","target")) m=(select(1,...))..(t and " ("..t.." Threat)" or "") o(s,m,select(2,...)) end


You basically press it once and it will add a threat entry to your combat log everytime the combat log updates. Be aware that updates don't necessarily happen right when the ability hits. Sometimes you have to wait a few seconds and combat log updates to see the threat change, so space accordingly. Also note how the numbers are displayed: 600 = 6 threat (read as 6.00 rather than 600), so if an ability hits for 1200, then without RF up, it will generate 120000 threat in the combatlog.



ooh, that is cute.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:13 pm

  • Is the "hidden" threat multiplier still present ? Has the RF change obliterated its existence ?
  • Do GC/SD procs generate threat ?
  • Do JotJ/Vindication (successful) applications generate threat ?
  • Do SoI/BoM procs generate threat ?
  • Do HoPow gains generate threat ?
  • Does WoG (both heal/shield) generate threat ?
  • Do auras (RA, Thorns) generate threat ?
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Arianne » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:17 am

  • Is the "hidden" threat multiplier still present ? Has the RF change obliterated its existence ?
    It's gone - consolidated as part of this.
  • Do GC/SD procs generate threat ?
    No. When I was doing testing earlier on how much threat CS did, I got some GC procs and threat didn't change any additional value to what my CS did.
  • Do JotJ/Vindication (successful) applications generate threat ?
    No. Same reasoning as above.
  • Do SoI/BoM procs generate threat ?
    Didn't test.
  • Do HoPow gains generate threat ?
    No. No additional unexplained threat when doing CS/HotR tests.
  • Does WoG (both heal/shield) generate threat ?
    Yes, WoG heal generates 1 threat per point. Dunno about the shield.
  • Do auras (RA, Thorns) generate threat ?
    Didn't test.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby jere » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:23 am

It's probably worth mentioning for Tlitp that on live BoW, JoL, and JoW procs all generate 0 threat. I would expect that mechanic to probably transfer over to Cata. If I recall, DP mana ticks did generate threat (at 50% as well), but I would have to go back and look at my notes.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:44 am

jere wrote:You basically press it once and it will add a threat entry to your combat log everytime the combat log updates. Be aware that updates don't necessarily happen right when the ability hits. Sometimes you have to wait a few seconds and combat log updates to see the threat change, so space accordingly. Also note how the numbers are displayed: 600 = 6 threat (read as 6.00 rather than 600), so if an ability hits for 1200, then without RF up, it will generate 120000 threat in the combatlog.

Things I found on the PTR:

RF is 125% (2.25 multiplier) and affects both physical and holy damage equally.
Mana from Sanc generates 0 threat. (same as before)
Mana from Judgement of the Wise generates threat at 50% of the rate of damage (same as before)
Some buffs, like seals for example, generate threat = level they are learned (modified by RF of course).
Buffs are modified by RF (my Ashen Verdict Ring proc generates 60.00 threat before RF and 135.00 after RF)


Wait, your Ring proc generates 135 threat, or 13500 threat? I assume you're using your notation, but that seems like an awful lot of threat from a ring proc.

I suspect JotW will be fixed to not generate threat as well, but we should keep an eye on it.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby tlitp » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:14 am

Bumping #4. The test is very simple (get naked; get a fast 1H; autoattack from the front a level 85 dummy), but rather tedious (the log needs to have at very least 1000 swings; 2000+ is preferable). You can even scrap the class requirement - level 83/84 warr/dk/rog/enh will do just fine.

This insistence is justified by two factors :
  • it is much easier to carry out an "exhaustive" test on dummies, rather than in the wild (hai there, Thrym)
  • after hitting 85 on live, people will certainly have other priorities
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:15 am

I am literally minutes away from having the first round of "useful" level 85 rotation data. What I need right now is a representative gear set to work from. I'm thinking that the pre-made gear would be the easiest thing to use as an approximation to what we'll be entering heroics with.

What I'm missing is stats for some of the items in the gear set. Here's what I need stats for:

Helm of Setesh
Breastplate of the Witness
Sand Dune Belt
Stone Wrapped Greaves
Ramkahen Front boots
Ring of Three Lights
Impetuous Query
Blackblood Freedom Standard
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:25 am

My premade DK (woops, seemed like a good idea at the time...) has those items, pulling up stats:

Helm of Setesh
Meta, red
191 Strength
401 Stam
208 Dodge
97 Exp

Breastplate of the Witness
268 Strength
401 Stam
191 Parry
157 Dodge

Sand Dune Belt
151 Strength
298 Stam
101 Exp
199 Dodge

Stone Wrapped Greaves
Red, Blue
248 Strength
401 Stam
138 Dodge
158 Parry

Ramkahen Front boots
151 Strength
298 Stam
199 Dodge
101 Hit

Ring of Three Lights
149 Strength
224 Stam
100 Parry
100 Mastery

Impetuous Query
252 Mastery
Use: 1260 Parry, 10 secs/1 min

Blackblood Freedom Standard (green and low ilevel)
73 Strength
110 Stam
40 Exp
54 Mastery
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:13 am

With reference to the above threat values, is that 1:1 value for WoG before RF? In that case, doesn't it mean it actually does significant single target threat with RF up?
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Arianne » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:19 am

No, it's 1:1 with RF up and at 125%. I didn't test with RF down.
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:24 am

Thanks
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:52 am

Is there still a difference between beta and PTR regarding Holy Power retention after a ShoR miss?

If not, what's the "standard" behavior now? Do we keep all 3? Do we lose 1? 2?

<edit> Also, a missed ShoR does consume Sacred Duty, correct?
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Re: A call to arms - Beta/PTR parses on WoL

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:59 am

theckhd wrote:Is there still a difference between beta and PTR regarding Holy Power retention after a ShoR miss?

If not, what's the "standard" behavior now? Do we keep all 3? Do we lose 1? 2?


afaik you keep all 3
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