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Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chicken » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:41 pm

I have a feeling that the occasional cycles that prefer AS+>CS have to do with SD. If you end up doing ShoR>AS+>CS>J>CS>ShoR you get a higher chance to get a SD proc, with the guaranteed crit potentially making up for the longer time between ShoRs. Which also makes for a curiosity on my part in the sdAS>etc. cycles. Would an "sdAS-", or 'only fish for SD procs with AS if we don't have a GC proc' result in a DPS gain?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Cassyboy » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:22 pm

Chicken wrote:I have a feeling that the occasional cycles that prefer AS+>CS have to do with SD. If you end up doing ShoR>AS+>CS>J>CS>ShoR you get a higher chance to get a SD proc, with the guaranteed crit potentially making up for the longer time between ShoRs. Which also makes for a curiosity on my part in the sdAS>etc. cycles. Would an "sdAS-", or 'only fish for SD procs with AS if we don't have a GC proc' result in a DPS gain?



You possibly mean the reversed? as of 'only fish for SD procs with AS if we got GC procced? Avenger's shield is > judgement with this change, problem is that the mana regen is dead. So while the sim says that ShotR>CS>AS+>J>AS is better than ShotR>CS>AS>J, in reality it is different. So you will probably prefer using AS > judgement if you got high mana. Everyone can correct me if I'm wrong of course

To theck's ideas. While the 4.5 second with additional stuff makes tanking more interesting, it is very unrealistic for a tank. You probably remember why people asked for a change with the rotation on the beta, considering we're a cooldown based class we ended up having no/poor spells ready when a new pack arrives or something along that line. I wouldn't enjoy having that, as the "pro" tanking will be very limited.



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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chicken » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:00 pm

I definitely meant without GC proceed. That is: sdAS->SotR>AS+>CS>J>AS or similar cycles.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Laladinny » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:26 pm

I apologize if this has already been covered. Also much thanks for all the work.

Was wondering if there have been any stats compared for max survival WH9 for 5 man, assuming AOE dps watching threat. Looking to attain more than just room pull+boss etc. Preferrably stats that reflect no weight on threat, currently looking at stam(worth alot less if I don't need vengence?)>dodge/parry>hit/exp (no mastery yet at 62 thought have an 85 on diff realm so info still helpful) and str falls where in this scenario?

TYVM All and will keep reading and edit if I find it first :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:25 am

I don't think this thread ever addresses sub-85 issues, more variables, less gear choices, and every other dungeon run your level changes...

I suppose best survivability pre-mastery would be as you said... Since you can't (really) gem yet, stam is set by ilvl.. and the gear you want should have dodge &/or parry.. you can't reforge yet... so.. Not much to discuss, just get stam/dodge/parry... If you try to farm an instance for a specific piece, you'll probably out level another upgrade you were looking at
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:47 pm

Kinda just obligatory:

Protection
Sacred Duty can now be activated by Avenger's Shield in addition to Judgements. The effect now lasts 10 seconds, down from 15.


With AS's change, I don't think it's really a nerf -- Just a *slight* chance that if you go into a new rotation with CS->Judge, and then have a CS miss, and no shield procs, it'll fall off

Otherwise, I can't see this being a huge threat/dps loss... --- more an annoyance
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:31 am

This is no different than the changes announced a week ago. The sims I ran last week model the reduced duration and new proc mechanics already.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:21 pm

I didn't realize the sims accounted for 10 second SD... I thought they were still on the 15 second timer.. SOrry
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:16 pm

I regenerated the rotation database this weekend in preparation for 4.1. This means that I should be able to start answering some 4.1 questions. One of the ones that has come up a lot lately is the value of Eternal Glory as a DPS talent post-patch. Here's what the talent sim spits out:

Code: Select all
                                        DPS per point
Vengeance                  --------100%------     --------30%-------
hit%/exp                   --2%/10---   8%/26     --2%/10---   8%/26
Talent                      W39    939    939    W39    939    939
SotP                          0    130    140     0     80     86
Hallowed Ground              52     51     54    33     33     35
WotL                       1027   1172   1378   670    762    897
Reck (0->1)                 213    288    341   138    187    222
Reck (1->2)                 190    258    305   123    167    198
Arbiter of the Light         50     67     74    31     42     46
JotP                         40     89     99    26     55     62
Crusade                     154    167    202   101    109    132
RoL                         155    168    203   101    110    133
Grand Crusader (0->1)       170    168    126   109    107     86
Grand Crusader (1->2)       224    182    187   143    116    123
Sacred Duty                 239    487    650   154    314    419
Eternal Glory                47     14     10    29      9      7


Take this with a grain of salt, because there could be an error in the code somewhere that I haven't found. But if these are correct, EG fares a lot worse than even I expected. I thought it would be relatively close to SotP (at least for W39/EG/SoI compared to 939/SotP/SoT), but it isn't. Note that I don't have a W39/SoT sim in that list, but the value of SotP shouldn't drop by more than half going from 939->W39.

<edit> If someone wouldn't mind checking my math, I'd appreciate it. As a ballpark estimate, calculate how much extra SotR damage we'd gain from one EG proc every minute, and subtract off the damage of one CS.

avg SotR: 17759
1.4xSotR: 24863 (to simulate SD crits)
avg CS: 13519
delta1: 4240
delta2: 11344


delta1/60/2 = ~35 DPS
delta2/60/2 = ~94 DPS

Chances are the 1.4 multiplier is a bit generous now that the duration is 10 seconds, but I don't have a good estimate handy.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arees » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:28 pm

Judgements of the Just debuff can no longer trigger talents and other effects.


From the April 8th updated patch notes...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:58 am

If someone could hop on the PTR and check this for me, I'd appreciate it. One or two Judgement casts on a dummy with SoT active should suffice. If we don't see double-Censure or double-SoT procs, then it's been fixed.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:32 am

Seal behaviour is covered by this test.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby daiceman » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:36 am

Forgive me if this has already been covered, but with the higher frequency of holy power gains and sacred duty procs, would something like this posibably work out to be more tps?

SDSotR>SotR*>Inq>CS>AS>J
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby polonadis » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:42 am

daiceman wrote:Forgive me if this has already been covered, but with the higher frequency of holy power gains and sacred duty procs, would something like this posibably work out to be more tps?

SDSotR>SotR*>Inq>CS>AS>J


The same idea (with one addition - HoW no top) occured to me and I, for one, think that this rotation - even if it would not turn out to be absolutely optimal - is a great choice to follow in 4.1, as it is quite straightforwad (SD up? -> SotR; No? -> Inq) and easy to pull off allowing for the majority of attention to be redirected to the actual encounter mechanics.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:08 am

Quick update: The FSM implementation is nearly complete, and I'm hoping to get it properly interfaced with the rest of the MATLAB code today, or at worst tomorrow. This will have a number of benefits, including faster run times and more accurate results. I will be including a wide variety of queues (including the ones just suggested) in the priority sim once it's up and running.

In the meantime, it would really help if a few people got on the PTR and completed the PTR tests requested in the Call to Arms thread. The sims are only as good as our model of the mechanics, and there are still a few questions remaining about the mechanics.
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