Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Dwarfadin » Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:32 am

I beg your pardon Theck, my suggestion was kind of improvised. The whole point was: prioritizing Avenger's Shield would not be completely a bad idea.

As the first page says, in fact, glyphed AS does similar damage to ShoR, also due to the fact it can't be dodged/parried. It's not total bullshit to prioritize it if low on hit/expertise.

If you take in exam rotations #1 and #6 they're totally similar.
However #6 is AS>ShoR>CS>J>etc so it puts J (=mana regen) on the lower end, there may be trouble in mana management.

I would like to test it live as it seems to be more suited for pull/burst aggro: AS doesn't need any Holy Power, any HoPo generator random misses, it's just ready for use and can't be parried.
I had several issues these days of 2-3 ShoR misses/parries in a row during the pull, so now I'm just not confident about it.

About my whining: I guess everyone of you has thought "why the hell they had PTR for up a month if they suddenly hotfixes on the release day with no notice at all?" :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:10 pm

Dwarfadin wrote:If you take in exam rotations #1 and #6 they're totally similar.
However #6 is AS>ShoR>CS>J>etc so it puts J (=mana regen) on the lower end, there may be trouble in mana management.

That's not a fair comparsion. #1 is SotR>CS>J>AS>HW, #6 is AS>SotR>CS>J>Cons>HW. #1 will necessarily be worse, because it makes no attempt to utilize a high-damage spell (Cons) even though we have empty GCDs in which to cast it.

The relevant comparison would be #3, SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW. And you can see that #3 outperforms #6 by a fair margin.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:13 am

Just a reminder that this is not the thread for discussing how your threat is post-patch. If your question/comment doesn't have direct relevance to the MATLAB code, it doesn't belong here. I've moved a few posts over to the CS/HotR thread that were off-topic.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arees » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:06 am

Hotfix for HotR went in today to make it so that the secondary holy nova damage will no longer miss as long as the primary target is hit.

The area-of-effect attack of Hammer of the Righteous no longer has a chance to miss secondary targets when the primary attack hits the paladin's target. If the primary attack of Hammer of the Righteous fails to hit the target due to miss/dodge/parry/block, no enemies will be affected by the area-of-effect attack. Rogues who are under Cloak of Shadows, however, are able to resist this damage.


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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:11 am

Yup. I've already updated my personal build. I should have an update for the rotation simulations this afternoon.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:11 pm

Rotation sim updated for 4.0.6a.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kurtizzle » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:20 am

Question for Theck,

I've been looking into enchants and it was quoted on here somewhere (really sorry) that avoidence/hp gains from the weapon enchants seem to go as follows:

Wind Walk > Blade Ward > Mending > others ???

(I'm looking on Eliteist Jerks for the source)

I tank with Mending, but I'm off to farm the sexy 2.8 speed Cookies Tenderiser, when I get it again (DE so many times) I'd like to get a Blade Ward on it.

Can you possibly find time, to code in the DPS conponent of Blade Ward and have the graph updated so we can weigh up it's DPS/Avoidence against things like Hurricane etc.

PS: I like different weapons for different jobs, with differen't enchants to enforce those jobs.

I'd like to save WW for a Raid Tank drop.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:56 am

Yes, this is something I've been planning on doing for the next round of enchanting sims. We already have old code to handle Blade Ward, it's just a matter of confirming that the proc rate has not changed appreciably.

If you could find the link to the EJ discussion, it would be very helpful.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gab » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:38 pm

Might not be the best place for this question or it might have been answered already, so I apologize if either are the case. I have tried to search the forums but couldn't find anything.

Grand Crusader reads: "When your Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous deal damage to your primary target, they have 10/20% chance of refreshing the cooldown on your next Avenger's Shield."

So does HotR have two chances to proc GC? One from the physical portion and one from the holy portion? Or is it just the physical portion that can proc GC?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:38 pm

Gab wrote:So does HotR have two chances to proc GC? One from the physical portion and one from the holy portion? Or is it just the physical portion that can proc GC?

I think it's just the physical portion. I'll have to look at some logs to confirm, but I'm fairly certain it is given the way the ability works. If it were 20% chance on both phys and holy, then in a log you should see a proc rate closer to 36% rather than 20%.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chicken » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:02 pm

theckhd wrote:
Gab wrote:So does HotR have two chances to proc GC? One from the physical portion and one from the holy portion? Or is it just the physical portion that can proc GC?

I think it's just the physical portion. I'll have to look at some logs to confirm, but I'm fairly certain it is given the way the ability works. If it were 20% chance on both phys and holy, then in a log you should see a proc rate closer to 36% rather than 20%.
Plus if the holy portion would have a chance to proc it you'd see a lot more procs in an AoE situation than in a single target situation; it'd only be a 36% average rate on a single target. From there you can also fairly easily conclude the holy portion isn't a trigger, as you don't get noticeably more procs when in an AoE situation.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:16 pm

Chicken wrote:
theckhd wrote:
Gab wrote:So does HotR have two chances to proc GC? One from the physical portion and one from the holy portion? Or is it just the physical portion that can proc GC?

I think it's just the physical portion. I'll have to look at some logs to confirm, but I'm fairly certain it is given the way the ability works. If it were 20% chance on both phys and holy, then in a log you should see a proc rate closer to 36% rather than 20%.
Plus if the holy portion would have a chance to proc it you'd see a lot more procs in an AoE situation than in a single target situation; it'd only be a 36% average rate on a single target. From there you can also fairly easily conclude the holy portion isn't a trigger, as you don't get noticeably more procs when in an AoE situation.

Unless the AoE portion was coded to only test once per cast rather than once per target. If it could proc once per every target we should have seen instances of multiple procs in some of the logs we've investigated already. I think both are pretty unlikely for us to have overlooked, which is why I'm pretty sure it's just the physical portion.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gab » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:56 pm

theckhd wrote:
Chicken wrote:Plus if the holy portion would have a chance to proc it you'd see a lot more procs in an AoE situation than in a single target situation; it'd only be a 36% average rate on a single target. From there you can also fairly easily conclude the holy portion isn't a trigger, as you don't get noticeably more procs when in an AoE situation.

Unless the AoE portion was coded to only test once per cast rather than once per target. If it could proc once per every target we should have seen instances of multiple procs in some of the logs we've investigated already. I think both are pretty unlikely for us to have overlooked, which is why I'm pretty sure it's just the physical portion.


Right, the wording from the talent makes it sound like it's only the "primary" target, so I don't think it would proc more in an AoE situation. The wording is just kind of vague, I looked over some of my recent logs, and I can't tell if it's procing from the physical or the holy portion. Although maybe there would be some double procs if both portions could proc it?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:50 pm

It's a bit of a moot point now that they hit or miss together. Whether it triggers off of the physical or nova components is irrelevant unless you see multiple procs (which I'm fairly certain can't happen) or a mutually exclusive double-chance to proc (again, fairly certain it's not the case, but this is the extra 16% proc rate we'd look for).

Given that the Nova seemed to be coded like a seal proc off of the physical component, it's logical to assume that the physical part is the trigger.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby jere » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:13 am

Theck, I went ahead and did a lot of testing/retesting today. I *think* I covered everything in my post at TS. Somethings of interest:

HP generates 0.5 threat per charge and is unaffected by RF. I previously thought DP buff was generating 1.5 threat, but when I was testing CS I noticed a phantom 0.5 threat. After a few tests in a couple different specs, I figured out it was the HP generated that was causing the threat. It threw me off cause when I tested with RF up my results weren't dividing by 3 correctly. I finally figured out the 0.5 threat wasn't affected by RF.

Consecration generates an additional 12.0 threat (before RF) per tick of damage (prior to Cata but in 4.0.3a it only generated the extra 12 threat on the first tick. Giving a threat equation of Th = (dmg+12)*(RF)

I did some testing on various sources of healing/mana/hp gain
Healing / Energy Gain Threat Modifiers
Code: Select all
Energy Gain      w/RF (3x)     without
----------------------------------------
Holy Power (per) 0.5           0.5         (RF does not affect threat)
FoL Healing      heal*1.50     heal*0.50
HL Healing       heal*1.50     heal*0.50
DL Healing       heal*1.50     heal*0.50
LoH Healing      heal*1.50     heal*0.50
SoI Healing      heal*1.50     heal*0.50
Mending          heal*1.50     heal*0.50
WoG Healing         0             0
Overhealing         0             0
DP mana          mana*1.50     mana*0.50
JoW mana         mana*1.50     mana*0.50
SoI mana            0             0
Sanc mana           0             0
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:08 am

Thanks Jere.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kurtizzle » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:05 pm

theckhd wrote:Yes, this is something I've been planning on doing for the next round of enchanting sims. We already have old code to handle Blade Ward, it's just a matter of confirming that the proc rate has not changed appreciably.

If you could find the link to the EJ discussion, it would be very helpful.


The post with weapon enchant discussions was here:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =viewtopic
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kurtizzle » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:17 pm

I't is kind of vague without data to back it up, I do have my sword of 1000 truths with Blade Ward enchanted on it, I could duel someone to get you some numbers.

I'll try it out tomorro, thanks.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Håvard » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:36 am

Hey Theck, I see your comparisons are not updated for 4.06 yet, but I just wanted to remind you of the new-to-4.06 [Darkheart Hacker] for when you do get around to updating the weapons comparisons.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:14 pm

Will do.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chubbi » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:26 am

Any of you kind souls can tell me the AP (or SP) coefficients and base damage at 85 of these skills?
1. Judgement with SoT (weird formula on wowhead)
2. AS (wowhead shows a fix value of 2k-3k)
3. HoR (wowhead shows fix value again)
4. SoT DoT over 5 seca (wowhead shows weird formula)
5. Consecration (weird formula again)

I've searched WoWPedia, MMO-Champ forums and google, but the results are outdated (??) or just displays a fixed value

Another question :
Crusader Strike damage with WotLB and Crusade + 4PT11
= (135%+100%) *1.3*1.1 weapon damage?
Does Holy Wrath scale with SP only?

Help would be very much appreciated
Thanks in advance :)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:13 am

Everything you're looking for is in the ability_model module.

Code: Select all
%Seal of Truth (fully stacked)
raw.SealofTruth=    0.15.*player.wdamage.*mdf.spdmg.*mdf.SotP;
raw.JoT        =    (1+0.2229.*player.hsp+0.1421.*player.ap).*1.5;
dmg.SealofTruth=    raw.SealofTruth.*mdf.phcrit.*target.resrdx; %automatical connect


%Censure (fully stacked, full duration)
raw.Censure=        (0.050.*player.hsp+0.0965.*player.ap).*5.*mdf.SotP.*mdf.spdmg;
dmg.Censure=        raw.Censure.*mdf.phcrit.*target.resrdx; %automatical connect, phys crit/CM
dps.Censure=        dmg.Censure./(5.*cens.NetTick);

%Judgement (the seal of choice is defined in execution_model)
raw.Judgement=      raw.Judgement.*mdf.spdmg.*(1+mdf.glyphJ+(10./3).*mdf.WotL);
dmg.Judgement=      raw.Judgement.*mdf.rahit.*mdf.Jcrit.*target.resrdx;



%Avenger's Shield (can be blocked)
raw.AvengersShield= (3113.187994+0.419.*player.ap+0.21.*player.hsp).*mdf.spdmg.*mdf.glyphAS;
dmg.AvengersShield= raw.AvengersShield.*mdf.ramodel.*mdf.phcrit.*target.resrdx;


%Hammer of the Righteous
%physical (can be blocked)
raw.HammeroftheRighteous=   0.3.*player.wdamage.*mdf.phdmg.*(1+mdf.Crus+mdf.glyphHotR);
dmg.HammeroftheRighteous=   raw.HammeroftheRighteous.*mdf.memodel.*mdf.HotRphcrit;
%Nova no longer rolls separately from phys; only occurs when phys succeeds
raw.HammerNova=   (728.8813374+0.18.*player.ap).*mdf.spdmg.*(1+mdf.Crus+mdf.glyphHotR);
dmg.HammerNova=   raw.HammerNova.*mdf.mehit.*mdf.HotRspcrit.*target.resrdx; %spell hit/crit

%Hammer of Wrath (can be blocked)
raw.HammerofWrath= (4015.02439+0.117.*player.hsp+0.39.*player.ap).*mdf.spdmg;
dmg.HammerofWrath= raw.HammerofWrath.*mdf.ramodel.*mdf.HoWcrit.*target.resrdx;

%Crusader Strike (can be blocked)
raw.CrusaderStrike= 1.35.*player.ndamage.*mdf.phdmg.*(1+mdf.Crus+(10./3).*mdf.WotL+mdf.t11x2);
dmg.CrusaderStrike= raw.CrusaderStrike.*mdf.memodel.*mdf.CScrit;

%Consecration
raw.Consecration =  (813.2998299+0.27.*player.hsp+0.27.*player.ap).*mdf.spdmg.*(1+mdf.HalGro).*mdf.glyphCons;
dmg.Consecration =  raw.Consecration.*mdf.sphit.*mdf.spcrit.*target.resrdx; %spell hit/crit

%Holy Wrath
raw.HolyWrath=      ((2402.8+0.61.*player.hsp)./exec.npccount).*mdf.spdmg;
dmg.HolyWrath=      raw.HolyWrath.*mdf.sphit.*mdf.HWcrit.*target.resrdx;


Most of the modifiers ("mdf.*") are defined in stat_model. For example, mdf.Crus and mdf.WotL are both 0.3 and mdf.t11x2 is 0.1 if the set bonus is present, so Crusader Strike's raw damage (for example, a normal swing on a dummy) is 1.35*(normalized weapon damage)*(1+0.3+1+0.1)=3.24*(normalized weapon damage), or 324%.

And yes, Holy Wrath only scales with sp (player.hsp is the player's holy spellpower).

Out of curiosity, what are you calculating?
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Re:

Postby Treck » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:06 pm

theckhd wrote:Image

If im reading this correctly, the currently BIS weapon for threat, is the tanking "Mace of Acrid Death" 372?
Then why would anyone prio Fang of Twilight over Mace of Acrid Death?
Your getting less threat, less avoidance, and for what? 1.2% critt?
Am i missing something?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Durability » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:13 pm

If nothing else, because presumably your rogues are getting that first.

As a side note, seeing the amount of difference the Acrid Death gets just from Parry makes me rather interested in its potential as a threat stat, especially with regard to recent SOT buffs.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Treck » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:52 am

Durability wrote:If nothing else, because presumably your rogues are getting that first.

That dont make no sense.

The valiona weapon is pretty bad optimized tbh, noone really wants it, rogues wants daggers, and frost dks while its ok for them the str version from magmaw is better.

I get a lot of people asking me why im not using Fang of Twilight, since its clearly the best weapon if paragons paladin tank is using it...
And i see no real justification to using that weapon over a real tanking weapon.
(and i know he has the maloriak 372 weapon, hes just choosing not to use it)
Fang of Twilight does gets points for looking a lot more awesome than the mace tho.

If you want threat, take a threat weapon, if you want survivability, go for a tanking weapon, not something in between cuz you kinda want a bit of both imo.
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