Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:41 pm

If my memory of Blade Ward parses is correct, the WoL entry for a stacking refresh included the number of stacks. It was something like:
Theck's Windwalk is refreshed.
Theck gains Windwalk(2).

Or some combination. I could be wrong though. We might have to wait until we get some live parses to know for sure.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:21 pm

Random parse (Dec 4th) :
Code: Select all
[00:05:08.374] Tssmagic's Blade Warding fades
[00:05:43.156] Tssmagic gains Blade Warding from Tssmagic
[00:05:44.903] Tssmagic gains Blade Warding (2) from Tssmagic
[00:05:54.813] Tssmagic's Blade Warding fades
[00:05:55.737] Tssmagic gains Blade Warding from Tssmagic

That's precisely how WW used to work on beta. The second application resets the duration of the first stack.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:44 pm

Not according to my old parses:
Code: Select all
[15:23:58.575] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:24:29.600] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:24:32.989] Theckpretwo's Windwalk is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[15:24:43.021] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:24:43.258] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:24:53.256] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:24:53.443] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:25:03.474] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:26:56.346] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:26:59.769] Theckpretwo's Windwalk is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[15:27:09.767] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:28:18.277] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:28:28.275] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:30:48.429] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:30:51.785] Theckpretwo's Windwalk is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[15:31:01.817] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:32:54.805] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:32:58.195] Theckpretwo's Windwalk is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[15:33:05.007] Theckpretwo's Windwalk is refreshed by Theckpretwo
[15:33:15.039] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:34:13.297] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo
[15:34:23.228] Theckpretwo's Windwalk fades
[15:35:45.411] Theckpretwo gains Windwalk from Theckpretwo


Those all show a "refresh" event rather than a "add stack" event type, like the Blade Ward one shows. It's also telling that WoL treats these as fulltype 401 (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED) but not as 402 (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED_DOSE). Blade Ward shows up for both fulltypes.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Treck » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:27 am

I dont know where else to post it, but im a wonder if anyone else has noticed that when changing towards the Glyph of Divine Protection, it lowers the tooltip of GoAK to 30% dmgreduction.
From a very brief testing it looked like GoAK suddenly reduced less dmg, anyone who can help confirm this?
Or maybe its suppose to be that way might have missed it.
Or maybe it even gives GoAK unintentially -20% physical +20% magical? (Doubt that tho)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:36 am

This sort of thing should go in the Call to Arms thread (since you asked).

To test this, we'd ideally want something that hits for a fixed amount of damage. Easiest way is to do this:

1) Find another paladin. Have him use SoT and a weak, fast weapon (Dalaran Sword ideal). Start recording the combat log.
2) Duel him, have him simply auto-attack you and stack Censure to 5.
3) After about 10-15 seconds of taking Censure damage, pop GAnK. After GAnK wears off, wait about 5 seconds and pop Divine Protection.
4) Wait for cooldowns to come up, and repeat step 3 with the DP glyph active (or inactive if you already had it active in step 3).
5) Upload the combat log (either here or to WoL) and let us analyze it.

Should take no longer than 10 minutes to do all of this, if anyone has the time and a paladin friend.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kristoferpally » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:22 am

Has a lvl 85 range been established for keeping dodge and parry within each other? Right now I have some dodge reforged into parry and am sitting at 12.56% and 11.21% dodge/parry. Is this too much or too little?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:19 am

You'd want parry and dodge to be fairly close to one another. The exact equivalence is that parry should be about 1.0295% higher than dodge, at which point 10 points of dodge gives exactly the same amount of avoidance as 10 points of parry.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Incite. » Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:39 pm

Moved to another thread.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:59 am

Finally, some code snippets to assess Hurricane (regular 3/9 with CS/SotR, full time-on-target) :
Code: Select all
hu.ppc=gear.swing./60;hu.spc=0.15;hu.pd=12;hu.sicd=45;
htrack=zeros(1,4);
hstore=gear.haste;
for i=1:5
gear.haste=hstore+450.*sum(htrack(i,2:3));
stat_model;ability_model;
hu.q(1)=(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.mehit).^(hu.pd./player.wswing) ...            %AA
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.mehit).^(hu.pd.*3./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ... %CS
    .*(1-hu.ppc).^(hu.pd./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ...               %SotR
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.rahit).^(hu.pd./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ...    %J
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.rahit).^(hu.pd.*P.CS./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)); %AS
hu.p(1)=1-hu.q(1);
hu.q(2)=(1-hu.spc).^(hu.pd./cens.NetTick) ...
    .*(1-hu.spc.*mdf.sphit).^(hu.pd.*max([0.75-P.CS;zeros(size(mdf.mehit))])./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd));
hu.p(2)=1-hu.q(2);
hu.tm=zeros(4,4);
hu.tm(1,1)=hu.q(1).*hu.q(2);hu.tm(1,2)=hu.p(1).*hu.q(2);hu.tm(1,3)=hu.p(2).*hu.q(1);hu.tm(1,4)=hu.p(1).*hu.p(2);
hu.tm(2,2)=1;
hu.tm(3,3)=hu.q(1);hu.tm(3,4)=hu.p(1);
hu.tm(4,4)=1;
hu.dd=hu.tm^100;hu.upt=hu.dd(1,:);
hu.upt=(hu.upt.*hu.pd+[hu.q(1) hu.p(1) 0 0].*hu.sicd)./(hu.pd+hu.sicd);
htrack=[htrack;hu.upt];
gear.haste=hstore+900.*htrack(i,4);
stat_model;ability_model;
hu.q(1)=(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.mehit).^(hu.pd./player.wswing) ...            %AA
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.mehit).^(hu.pd.*3./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ... %CS
    .*(1-hu.ppc).^(hu.pd./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ...               %SotR
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.rahit).^(hu.pd./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)) ...    %J
    .*(1-hu.ppc.*mdf.rahit).^(hu.pd.*P.CS./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd)); %AS
hu.p(1)=1-hu.q(1);
hu.q(2)=(1-hu.spc).^(hu.pd./cens.NetTick) ...
    .*(1-hu.spc.*mdf.sphit).^(hu.pd.*max([0.75-P.CS;zeros(size(mdf.mehit))])./(9+1.5.*rot.xtragcd));
hu.p(2)=1-hu.q(2);
hu.tm=zeros(4,4);
hu.tm(1,1)=hu.q(1).*hu.q(2);hu.tm(1,2)=hu.p(1).*hu.q(2);hu.tm(1,3)=hu.p(2).*hu.q(1);hu.tm(1,4)=hu.p(1).*hu.p(2);
hu.tm(2,2)=1;
hu.tm(3,3)=hu.q(1);hu.tm(3,4)=hu.p(1);
hu.tm(4,4)=1;
hu.dd=hu.tm^100;hu.upt=hu.dd(1,:);
hu.upt=(hu.upt.*hu.pd+[hu.q(1) hu.p(1) 0 0].*hu.sicd)./(hu.pd+hu.sicd);
htrack(i+1,:)=(hu.upt.*hu.pd+htrack(i+1,:).*hu.sicd)./(hu.pd+hu.sicd);
end
hu.dps=[];
for j=0:450:900
gear.haste=hstore+j;
stat_model;ability_model;rotation_model;
hu.dps=[hu.dps rot.totdps];
end
hu.dps=hu.dps(1).*(htrack(6,1)-1)+hu.dps(2).*sum(htrack(6,2:3))+hu.dps(3).*htrack(6,4);
[htrack(6,:) hu.dps]

Unlike Av, both LS/Hu do scale with weapon ilvl. Moreover, Hu scales heavily with Vengeance (whilst LS/Av are Vengeance-invariant). Let's see how Hu performs in the most favorable scenario (raid gear set with an ilvl 372 weapon, Veng=1.0) :
Code: Select all
ph=physical hit (%)
exp=expertise (skill)

               LS.dps   Av.dps   Hu.dps   Hu.dps@Veng=0.3
ph=0,exp=0        176      146       78       46
ph=8,exp=0        210      158       86       50
ph=8,exp=26       256      175       99       58

As expected, a lower Vengeance value absolutely butchers Hurricane's effectiveness.


Good grace, why is Hurricane that bad for Protection ? Well, there are some key differences between Ret/Hu and Prot/Hu :
  • Ret uses slower weapons (2H versus 1H), and (generally) higher hit/exp values; both factors contribute to a higher uptime.
  • haste has interesting side effects for Ret (AoW, SoB, HoL), boosting abilities with way higher DPET than regular autoattacks; for Prot it only has minor interactions with Reckoning.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby towelliee » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:40 pm

Anyone look at the new weapon enchants? Landslide procs like every other second. It is amazing.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:52 pm

towelliee wrote:Anyone look at the new weapon enchants? Landslide procs like every other second. It is amazing.

I'd love to see a long auto-attack parse with Landslide to confirm its mechanics, if you have access to the enchant. A slow 2-hander would be better, but given how expensive the enchant is right now I'll take what I can get. I'm hoping to finish off the enchant comparison this week, now that the holiday blitz is calming down.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:17 am

Random parse (Dec 26th) :
  • 383 triggers, counting only the connected ones (179 AA/105 CS/70 TV/29 J); 3.6 base swing time
  • expected procs : mean 22.98, stdev 4.6477
  • observed procs : 21

"Landslide procs like every other second." :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theothersteve7 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:39 pm

Am I reading this right? I see 1000 AP with 40% uptime. Compared to 600 dodge with 13% uptime for Windwalk. Even on a tank, I'm not sure I'd trade 400 AP for 100 dodge. That's double the itemization points.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:47 am

theothersteve7 wrote:Am I reading this right? I see 1000 AP with 40% uptime. Compared to 600 dodge with 13% uptime for Windwalk. Even on a tank, I'm not sure I'd trade 400 AP for 100 dodge. That's double the itemization points.


Yes, you're reading it right. I'd still trade 400 AP for 100 dodge in current content though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theothersteve7 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:26 am

Yeah, I guess you're right, the dodge is better, but it's reasonably close. Avalanche looks very nice on low vengeance levels, particularly. It's comparable to the dodge's weight in expertise, at least. Though I suppose I'd prefer expertise for the reliability.

I'm a little disappointed, that would have been a pretty funny discovery.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:14 pm

theothersteve7 wrote:Am I reading this right? I see 1000 AP with 40% uptime. Compared to 600 dodge with 13% uptime for Windwalk.

Whoa, wait a moment. :lol:
LS and WW have the same proc chance (1 PPM, not haste-normalized) and the same triggers; what's different is the proc duration. Their (theoretical) average uptime is therefore "about the same" (LS should be ~115% WW). Encounters that will butcher one of them (time-off-target : moving/stuns/attack "speed" debuffs a.s.o.) will also butcher the other one.
Last edited by tlitp on Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Sur-Pseudo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:21 pm

Hey everyone,

I wanted to determine the ICD on the Porcelain Crab (Heroic), however this will be a very long process without a tool to parse a log >.>

Does someone have a tool that can scan and determine the earliest time between procs ? So far my 8 stopwatch tests have yielded results of 103-164 seconds between procs (obviously without benefit of reckoning or raid buffs as it's a target dummy)

I was debating leaving my toon attacking for a while, but it's pointless if I cant figure out the answer afterward... And I think the Wowhead comment that reported 80 seconds ICD might be wrong.

Anyway, Might help in determining it's value compared to other trinkets
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:43 pm

It's probably 100s (for the vast majority of the Cataclysm-specific, ICD-based dynamic effects, the ICD is five times the proc duration). Check SimC later on, when they'll update it.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theothersteve7 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:13 pm

tlitp wrote:LS and WW have the same proc chance (1 PPM, not haste-normalized) and the same triggers; what's different is the proc duration. Their (theoretical) average uptime is therefore "about the same" (LS should be ~115% WW). Encounters that will butcher one of them (time-off-target : moving/stuns/attack "speed" debuffs a.s.o.) will also butcher the other one.



Oh, I guess this comes from a misunderstanding on my end with procs. You say "not haste-normalized"; I assumed 1 PPM was 1 PPM was 1 PPM. So if haste effects increase proc rates that means a few things.

1. The data in a dps gear and spec would not be an accurate portrayal of uptime of the same enchant on a tank weapon.
2. Given raid buffs (windfury, etc) I can expect WW to be worth more than 100 dodge rating on average.

I've never really looked into proc mechanics before. Thanks.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:47 pm

About 0.8-1% dodge, post-DR(). Accurate for a (tank-oriented) raid gear set, ~359 average ilvl.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theothersteve7 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:34 am

Oh, sweet, I missed that post, just what I was looking for. According to that, Windwalk is worth around 190-240 dodge rating, and Landslide is worth 380-450 AP, scaling toward to upper ends of those ranges with more expertise and hit. Normal values (and expertise glyph) put them right around 200 dodge and 400 AP respectively. Landslide isn't really even worth mentioning at those values. Good information for Ret, though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Durability » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:48 am

# Crusader Strike weapon damage percent has been increased to 135%, up from 115%.

I'm assuming this puts ISH9 to bed for good, and should make Expertise even more amazing than it already is.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:06 am

tlitp wrote:About 0.8-1% dodge, post-DR(). Accurate for a (tank-oriented) raid gear set, ~359 average ilvl.

How does that compare to using Mending? Did I miss the memo on average healing output with it?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Durability » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:21 am

Kelaan wrote:
tlitp wrote:About 0.8-1% dodge, post-DR(). Accurate for a (tank-oriented) raid gear set, ~359 average ilvl.

How does that compare to using Mending? Did I miss the memo on average healing output with it?


It's not exactly rigorous theorycraft, but Mending usually ended up being about ~10% of my self-healing if I recall. Don't discount the movement portion of WW either.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby RedAces » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:45 am

hey,

Durability wrote:Don't discount the movement portion of WW either.


does it stack with PoJ ? Thought not...

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