Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby polonadis » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:45 pm

theckhd wrote:Also, I posted the Enchant/Food analysis on the first page of the thread.


on the topic of enchants and professions :

I would like to ask US players to create a thread on US forums asking the blue posters if there are any stam/str/int/spirit enchants planned for the wrist slot. The reason why I ask you to do this is that if there are no plans to make these stats available then Leatherworking will pull WAY ahead - both for tanks and dpsers - of other professions in perks departament, and the EU forums are quite neglected by the devs.

Thanks in advance.


more on that topic here
Last edited by polonadis on Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Epimer » Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:26 am

The Enchant/Food Comparison shortcut currently links to the Glyph Comparison sub-section.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Awyndel » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:34 am

Could we perhaps get a flask/elixer comparison, and one for haste and crit pots?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:22 am

Awyndel, not to unleash an acid reply : I promise that I'll personally get you the critical stuff that you're after - that is, if you get me the results I'm interested in. Does it sound like a fair deal ? :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby agetro » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:55 am

I'm curious. Does the Min and Max Damage of a weapon matter? Yesterday I purchased the Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver because it looks awesome! But I don't see any information for it on this post. Granted I lose 3 points of expertise for not using the 251 Mace from 10M Marrowgar, I figured I would just reforge a bit to get those points back.

The difference between the Slicer and the Cleaver is the Min Damage on the Cleaver is 412, whearas the Slicer is at 471. But the Max Damage on Cleaver is 767; Slicer 708. Does this really matter?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:05 pm

Agetro wrote:I'm curious. Does the Min and Max Damage of a weapon matter? Yesterday I purchased the Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver because it looks awesome! But I don't see any information for it on this post. Granted I lose 3 points of expertise for not using the 251 Mace from 10M Marrowgar, I figured I would just reforge a bit to get those points back.

The difference between the Slicer and the Cleaver is the Min Damage on the Cleaver is 412, whearas the Slicer is at 471. But the Max Damage on Cleaver is 767; Slicer 708. Does this really matter?


Its more the average weapon damage than the min/max. I prefer the Slicer as its less random, but either way its not a big difference. That plus I'm human so the sword is better.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Awyndel » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:57 pm

tlitp wrote:Awyndel, not to unleash an acid reply : I promise that I'll personally get you the critical stuff that you're after - that is, if you get me the results I'm interested in. Does it sound like a fair deal ? :P


I realise I haven't been much help lately. But I have some real life issues I need to take care of between raids. I know, I know, everybody has the same deal. But I figured asking questions is more important then doing nothing. I will see if I can help more once I get some more quiet time.

Doesn't help my pc doesn't have space for PTR or Beta installations atm. If you guys still need anything tested on live I can prolly do them over the weekend. Would be nice if the call to arms thread had a list of outstanding tests on the frontpage, it's kind of confusing for somebody coming late.

Don't worry about acid replies. That's not what I am here for. Certainly not after all the help I got here.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Neptuno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:13 pm

FYI some of the first post links don't line up anymore (weapon specifically was about 3 posts too high)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:14 am

Yeah, I shuffled some of the posts around to fit the AoE simulations, and apparently the links in the Table of Contents got mixed up. They should be fixed now.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby DementedPS » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:27 pm

Agetro wrote:I'm curious. Does the Min and Max Damage of a weapon matter? Yesterday I purchased the Wrathful Gladiator's Cleaver because it looks awesome! But I don't see any information for it on this post. Granted I lose 3 points of expertise for not using the 251 Mace from 10M Marrowgar, I figured I would just reforge a bit to get those points back.

The difference between the Slicer and the Cleaver is the Min Damage on the Cleaver is 412, whearas the Slicer is at 471. But the Max Damage on Cleaver is 767; Slicer 708. Does this really matter?


The Pummeler has exactly the same stats as the Cleaver, and allows you to keep the expertise bonus.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:52 am

We're now entering the phase of the project where we retire the level 80 code and update everything to model level 85 mechanics. That means level 80 development is over, and I won't be making any more significant posts about level 80 mechanics. I do have a copy of the old code handy if something important comes up, but I don't anticipate needing to use it.

Thanks to everyone for their help so far. I'll need more parses for the next phase of the project, if you're interested in helping please visit the Call to Arms thread and contribute.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:35 pm

Useful information re: enchants:

Anaria wrote:So I logged on and tested this myself with some extremely interesting results. I couldn't find (or think of) a way of making it so I didn't auto attack when I used the melee abilities so I carried on going until I got 2 avalanche procs - 1 from the regular melee swing and 1 from the ability I was testing. This does mean that the abilities I state do not proc it are technically inconclusive, but after extensive use I never got a double avalanche proc from them. Not ideal I know but hey, tell me a better way and I'll do it. All ranged abilities were used from a distance so that melee was not a problem. I performed the test on a level 85 Draenei with the template copy gear including Ashkandi, a 3.8 speed weapon.

Abilities that proc Avalanche:
Judgement
Crusader Strike
Divine Storm
Exorcism
Holy Wrath
Templar's Verdict
Censure DoT damage
Glyph of Exorcism DoT damage

Abilities that do not proc Avalanche (subject to above testing limitations):
Rebuke
Hammer of Justice
Hammer of Wrath
Consecration
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Yeah, I was aware of that EJ post. We do need some clarifications, though.
  • Does JotJ still have weird interactions ?
  • Are DoT effects capable of triggering enchantments on a per-tick basis ? Is the application of the respective aura the only trigger ?
  • Are the prot-centric abilities (AS/HotR/SotR) viable triggers ?
  • Are multi-target abilities (AS for prot, DS for ret) able to serve as triggers on a per-target basis ?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:39 pm

Yep, all of those things will have to be tested. I was just surprised by some of the triggers. I didn't expect several of the spell-like abilities to trigger enchants.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:19 pm

From just messing around from a bit on the 4.0.3a PTR:

Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous is working.
T10 2PC is still not working on the Nova portion.
Crusader Strike is 115% Weapon Damage as a base.

Wrath of the Light Bringer is now 50%/100% increased Judgement and Crusader Strike damage.

This brings fully talented Crusader Strike down to 264.5% Weapon Damage.
From some quick napkin math, this puts HotR > CS.

Oh and the Boss dummy is level 88 now I believe. It shows as skull level to me. No logs for this yet, I'll see about getting some later.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:07 pm

AriKT wrote:From just messing around from a bit on the 4.0.3a PTR:
Crusader Strike is 115% Weapon Damage as a base.

Wrath of the Light Bringer is now 50%/100% increased Judgement and Crusader Strike damage.

This brings fully talented Crusader Strike down to 264.5% Weapon Damage.
From some quick napkin math, this puts HotR > CS.

Oh and the Boss dummy is level 88 now I believe. It shows as skull level to me. No logs for this yet, I'll see about getting some later.


Not this again. Damn you blizz...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gamingdevil » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:30 pm

AriKT wrote:Oh and the Boss dummy is level 88 now I believe. It shows as skull level to me. No logs for this yet, I'll see about getting some later.


A boss level mob, always counts as being 3 levels above you, regardless of it's intended level (hence you still need 8% hit for Ragnaros for instance) I assume dummies are no different.
If it is weak, kill it before it gets stronger. If it is strong, weaken it.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:40 pm

Gamingdevil wrote:
AriKT wrote:Oh and the Boss dummy is level 88 now I believe. It shows as skull level to me. No logs for this yet, I'll see about getting some later.


A boss level mob, always counts as being 3 levels above you, regardless of it's intended level (hence you still need 8% hit for Ragnaros for instance) I assume dummies are no different.


Not anymore in Cata, where GC hinted at going with lvl 88 that scale per tier, kind of like 88, 88-1, 88-2, so that you will always want more stats without reaching an actual cap for whatever is the latest content. So, while the first bosses of the first raids might require a certain amount of hit, the next tier would need just a smidge more of hit.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:47 am

That doesn't necessarily mean that the boss' level will change, just that their stats will. They might just increase their dodge, parry and expertise for instance.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby culhag » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:53 am

Gamingdevil wrote:A boss level mob, always counts as being 3 levels above you, regardless of it's intended level (hence you still need 8% hit for Ragnaros for instance) I assume dummies are no different.

Boss level mobs scale up but they don't scale down.
For example if you go fight Ragnaros now it'll be as if he's lvl 83, but if you'd try to fight him at level 50 he won't be lvl 53. He's coded as a level 60 boss so he'll always be at least level 63.
Likewise if the dummy is coded as a lvl 85 boss it will always be at least lvl 88.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gamingdevil » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:02 am

culhag wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:A boss level mob, always counts as being 3 levels above you, regardless of it's intended level (hence you still need 8% hit for Ragnaros for instance) I assume dummies are no different.

Boss level mobs scale up but they don't scale down.
For example if you go fight Ragnaros now it'll be as if he's lvl 83, but if you'd try to fight him at level 50 he won't be lvl 53. He's coded as a level 60 boss so he'll always be at least level 63.
Likewise if the dummy is coded as a lvl 85 boss it will always be at least lvl 88.


Ah yes, forgot about that, good point.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:43 am

Sorry, didn't get logs last night and probably won't before the weekend. Thu, Fri, and Sat are raid days for me.

Another thing was, that SoT and Censure were doing far less damage on the PTR than on Live. This will probably make SotP less attractive.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kristoferpally » Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:51 am

1) so to clarify is hotr> cs for single target as of now and will this change post 4.03a?

2) they are nerfing gbtl from 60% to 10% increase to wog :( Pally tanks already take the most damage of the tanks (maybe less than warriors) and on top of this they are nerfing our heal that wasnt even in need of a nerf since to use it we have to give up shield slam which is a huge dps loss. /sigh
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:42 am

kristoferpally wrote:1) so to clarify is hotr> cs for single target as of now and will this change post 4.03a?

No, and probably not. CS is better right now, and despite the slight (~10%) nerf in 4.0.3a it will probably remain better due to the glyph, if only by a slim margin. At 85 I suspect that CS will win hands down, as it scales considerably better with AP (~45% compared to ~33% for HotR).

kristoferpally wrote:2) they are nerfing gbtl from 60% to 10% increase to wog :( Pally tanks already take the most damage of the tanks (maybe less than warriors) and on top of this they are nerfing our heal that wasnt even in need of a nerf since to use it we have to give up shield slam which is a huge dps loss. /sigh

Is there a question here? Because there's no cheese in this thread to go with whine.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tobit » Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:14 pm

theckhd wrote:CS is better right now, and despite the slight (~10%) nerf in 4.0.3a it will probably remain better due to the glyph, if only by a slim margin.


Is this the case only if you're using a 2.6 speed weapon, or does it apply to the (admittedly, outdated) faster tanking weapons? I've been trying to get a BVB or at least a Last Word while farming honor for a Wrathful, but as of right now I'm still using a Bonebreaker Scepter. -_-

Also, does 4.0.3a fix the glyph and set bonus bugs for HotR?
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