Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:38 am

That shouldn't be too hard though, I really just need to compare 0/3 to 3/3 and see how much of an increase we get. The other two sets (1/3 and 2/3) are just sanity checks.

Also, try and take note of Censure damage if you could. It scales with SP and AP, so performing the test naked (except for weapon) might be better for that. I think SotP might be affecting Censure based on Kysen's data in another thread, this test would confirm or refute that.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:59 am

Censure damage is definitely up as I add points to Seals of the Pure. I'm lame and don't know how to parse a log (went to worldoflogs.com and didn't see options to do anything but look at other peoples' raid logs) but here's the raw log data:

http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-0SotP.txt
http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-1SotP.txt
http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-3SotP.txt

In the first log I don't start doing anything for quite a while; I was taking gear off and confirming buffs and all that. For all three of these logs I had no buffs except Crusader Aura and Seal of Truthgeance. Attack Power 522, Spell Power 178, weapon was a Hatchet with 7.4 DPS (weirdly, it's 7.2 according to WoWhead but I double-checked) and 2.50 speed.

(I don't really want to hang the parsing work on you; if you can tell me how to do it or link to some idiot-proof instructions I'll do it. I just put the logs up in case parsing is easier than teaching others to parse.)

Update: I did the pencil-and-paper thing - Seals of the Pure affects Censure, without a doubt.

Without SotP, in my standard gear, Censure ticks for 419 every time unless it crits.
One point of SotP, ticks for 440.
Two points of SotP, ticks for 461.
Three points of SotP, ticks for 482.
Last edited by Arcand on Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:05 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:02 pm

tlitp: Wearing a shirt, tabard and a grey axe, my human 80 PTR guy has...

90 agility
2.38% dodge
5.00% parry
21.00% block

Kings brings the agility up to 94. That takes my dodge to 2.46% and, as expected, has no effect on parry or block.

Oh, and his health is 10271 naked with 233 stamina.
Kings makes it 10391 with 245 stamina.

Kinda weird - I'm used to gaining a couple, three thousand health when I cast Kings...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby tlitp » Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:50 pm

Hm. I'd be interested in some (pure) agility scaling - at both 80/85. Base dodge was certainly lowered.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:34 pm

tlitp wrote:Hm. I'd be interested in some (pure) agility scaling - at both 80/85. Base dodge was certainly lowered.


I'll see what I can do with gemming. I've got plenty of socketed gear but as usual people are Striving! With! All! Their! Might! to get rich on the PTR, charging crazy prices for stuff...
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Bastien » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:48 pm

Arcand wrote:Censure damage is definitely up as I add points to Seals of the Pure. I'm lame and don't know how to parse a log (went to worldoflogs.com and didn't see options to do anything but look at other peoples' raid logs) but here's the raw log data:

http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-0SotP.txt
http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-1SotP.txt
http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/Truth-3SotP.txt

In the first log I don't start doing anything for quite a while; I was taking gear off and confirming buffs and all that. For all three of these logs I had no buffs except Crusader Aura and Seal of Truthgeance. Attack Power 522, Spell Power 178, weapon was a Hatchet with 7.4 DPS (weirdly, it's 7.2 according to WoWhead but I double-checked) and 2.50 speed.

(I don't really want to hang the parsing work on you; if you can tell me how to do it or link to some idiot-proof instructions I'll do it. I just put the logs up in case parsing is easier than teaching others to parse.)



I don't speak MATLAB, but I do speak perl.

I just happened to be working on a very rudimentary log parser, so maybe this helps?

From Arcand's posted logs:
Truth - 0SotP
Code: Select all
Total Damage      Spell Name   Cast Count      Average Damage      Casters
      7826      Censure          110           71.15      Arcand
      7560      Melee            110           68.73      Arcand
      1912      Seal of Truth    108           17.70      Arcand
==================================================================


Truth - 1SotP
Code: Select all
Total Damage      Spell Name   Cast Count      Average Damage      Casters
      8369      Censure          118           70.92      Arcand
      7648      Melee            110           69.53      Arcand
      2088      Seal of Truth    108           19.33      Arcand
==================================================================


Truth - 3SotP
Code: Select all
Total Damage      Spell Name      Cast Count      Average Damage      Casters
      7250      Censure                89           81.46         Arcand
      6062      Melee                  89           68.11         Arcand
      1839      Seal of Truth          89           20.66         Arcand
==================================================================
Last edited by Bastien on Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:14 pm

The 0 and 1 logs give identical numbers? That's too weird; I hope I didn't screw
up the naming or something. Are those two logs identical? Or is there any
chance you hit the same link twice, maybe?

Edit: They're not...and yet the total melee and Censure damage are exactly
the same? That's so improbable I can't even imagine, and it's also bizarre because
I'm positive the Censure numbers went up when I added points to Seals of the Pure.
Time for some more note-taking...


PS: Bastien, thanks for doing that.

PPS: Theck, see my first post on this page: sure as sure can be, Seals of the Pure increases Censure ticks.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:43 am

A few notes:

1) I made a new WoL account and guild for hosting beta parses. The guild is named maintankadin and it's listed under US-Blackrock. Anyone who's willing to help out can make a WoL account and request to be added to the guild - I'll add everyone and give them upload rights.

Uploading a log is as easy as downloading the client, running it (it's Java), putting in your user/pass, and then opening the log file and uploading.

2) I uploaded arcand's original parses:
0/3: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/6jqa ... etails/13/
1/3: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/oyib ... details/8/
2/3: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8b6c ... details/7/

Average Censure ticks were 75.9, 78.1, and 88.4 respectively. The 1/3 seems a little lower than it should be (should be around 79.7), but the 3/3 is 16.4% higher than 0/3, which supports Arcand's findings in his regular gear.

3) I'm fairly certain Bastien has a copy/paste error in his post. Every single number in the 1/3 section is identical to the 0/3 section.

4) Looking at the logs, you saw a bunch of misses and dodges. However, upon closer inspection, it looks like they're all failed re-applications. The DoT ticks never seem to miss or be dodged. So this behavior is consistent with what we know about SoV on live. I assume you didn't see any parries because you were attacking from behind.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Bastien » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:36 am

theckhd wrote:3) I'm fairly certain Bastien has a copy/paste error in his post. Every single number in the 1/3 section is identical to the 0/3 section.


Looks like that was the case. I ran a diff on the 0SotP and the 1SotP files and they were identical. I thought that a little strange myself when I first ran it.

I downloaded the correct 1SotP file and re-ran it. I updated my last post with the new numbers, but they don't reflect/confirm Theck's findings from the WoL parse, so it's entirely possible my script is missing something. :-/
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:24 am

theckhd wrote:Average Censure ticks were 75.9, 78.1, and 88.4 respectively. The 1/3 seems a little lower than it should be (should be around 79.7), but the 3/3 is 16.4% higher than 0/3, which supports Arcand's findings in his regular gear.

I wasn't consistent about logging the ramp-up time; in fact, I'm pretty sure on one trial I mistyped /combatlog and didn't realize my mistake until a minute later, so we might have some runs containing ticks from 1-4 stacks while others don't. I was running each trial for about three minutes so hacking off the first 20% of each log might make the discrepancy go away.

3) I'm fairly certain Bastien has a copy/paste error in his post. Every single number in the 1/3 section is identical to the 0/3 section.

Same thing I thought, and it looks like he's made a correction now.

4) Looking at the logs, you saw a bunch of misses and dodges. However, upon closer inspection, it looks like they're all failed re-applications. The DoT ticks never seem to miss or be dodged. So this behavior is consistent with what we know about SoV on live. I assume you didn't see any parries because you were attacking from behind.

The way my threat feels right now on the PTR, I thought it most realistic to model my abilities with me attacking the bad guys from behind while they're busy killing somebody else. :roll:
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:58 pm

Posting this so I can find it later, Holy Wrath mechanics
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arcand » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:23 am

Flex was right; it looks like I had the hammer components backwards. I assumed the direct component was the bigger one.

http://www.29tharmor.com/resources/HammerLog.txt

Log narrative: I taunt-pull an undead crusader, facepull a second, then beat on them by repeatedly hitting Hammer and then cancelling autoattack. Late in the fight a crypt lord adds in.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Gaffer » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:13 am

theckhd wrote:1) I made a new WoL account and guild for hosting beta parses. The guild is named maintankadin and it's listed under US-Blackrock. Anyone who's willing to help out can make a WoL account and request to be added to the guild - I'll add everyone and give them upload rights.


Rather unfortunate that World of Logs doesn't allow one account to upload to multiple guilds.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:31 am

Yeah, I had to make a 2nd WoL account myself for this purpose.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Alandrek » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:02 am

tlitp wrote:Interested in seeing several data sets on the topic of avoidance DR, conveying both 80ptr and 85beta.
- pure dodge (i.e. no buffs, no gear with agility)
- pure agility (no buffs, no gear with dodge)
- parry
Only character panel info is needed at this time.


No beta access here, but I do have some PTR data (Level 80 Human Paladin).

* No dodge, parry, or agility from gear *

Unbuffed: 90 Agility, 2.38% dodge, 5% parry
With Kings: 94 agility, 2.46% dodge, 5% parry

* Stacking agility but not dodge *

137 agility, 3.32% dodge
186 agility, 4.26% dodge
229 agility, 5.07% dodge

* Stacking dodge but not agility *

626 dodge rating, 14.29% dodge
872 dodge rating, 17.80% dodge
1247 dodge rating, 22.41% dodge

* Stacking parry *

351 parry rating, 12.22% parry
507 parry rating, 14.94% parry
582 parry rating, 16.17% parry

I know this data set is somewhat small - let me know if you're interested in more data points (and an approximate number).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:16 am

About to head off to a movie, so I don't have much time to post. I spent the morning on the priority simulation code, which is almost done. It's functional now, but I want to do some polishing to it.

It currently calculates damage two ways - for one, it recalculates ability_model every iteration and jots down the damage caused by each spell when it fires. The other is more abstract, in that it tracks SD, Inqusition, and every spell that's cast, and at the end generates spell weighting coefficients for each.

The general concept is that once you have the coefficients, your DPS is (coeff*dmg.SpellName) for each spell. The coefficient is basically (casts)/(total time), but modified to account for Inquisition and SD procs.

I prefer the coefficient method because it gives me an easy way to do the stat calculations later on (using the old method). However, there's one big caveat - since ShoR can be avoided, I can't use the coefficients for hit or expertise (because that changes the rotation).

I'm mulling over which damage calculation I prefer - I still think I prefer the coefficient method, since I don't have to re-run the simulation for other stats and it's redundant with the "on-the-fly" calculation if I re-run the simulation anyhow. It's also much faster if I don't run ability_model every iteration, for obvious reasons.

Would like some feedback on this, will check back in after the movie.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arianne » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:15 pm

tlitp wrote:Interested in seeing several data sets on the topic of avoidance DR, conveying both 80ptr and 85beta.
- pure dodge (i.e. no buffs, no gear with agility)
- pure agility (no buffs, no gear with dodge)
- parry
Only character panel info is needed at this time.

EDIT : also include a set of data conveying base values. No buffs, naked, untalented. Fetch base stats (mention race) and base dodge.


Dwarf Paladin level 80 Protection spec'd but only with 3/3 Divinity and 3/3 SotP
No gear:
156 Str
86 Agi
165 Sta
97 Int
104 Spirit
0 armor
2.31% dodge
5% parry
21% block chance

Sta Gear:
1757 Str
128 Agi
4598 Sta
97 Int
104 Spirit
26475 Armor
22.32 Dodge (tooltip says 1209 dodge rating adds 26.72% before DR)
15.47 Parry (tooltip says 539 parry rating adds 11.91% parry before DR)
21% Block chance
Mastery 8 (base mastery, no rating)

Avoidance/Mastery Gear:
1712 Str
158 Agi
4336 Sta
97 Int
104 Spirit
25327 Armor
20.65% Dodge (tooltip says 1039 dodge rating adds 22.96% before DR)
16.39% Parry (tooltip says 596 rating adds 13.17% parry before DR)
38.16% Block
16.58 Mastery (394 rating adds 8.58 mastery)

Ret Gear (no defensive stats - nightmare tear for added int/spirit), no talents or spec choice
1820 Str
496 Agi
2696 Sta
107 Int
114 Spirit
15670 armor
9.64% dodge
5.00% parry
5.00% block


294 Agi - 7.97% dodge
219 Agi - 4.88% dodge
117 Agi - 2.92% dodge

Varying only dodge but not agi or parry
1209 Dodge Rating - 26.72% before DR - 22.32% dodge on char sheet
1141 Dodge Rating - 25.22% before DR - 21.55% dodge on char sheet
1014 Dodge Rating - 22.41% before DR - 20.03% dodge on char sheet
941 Dodge Rating - 20.80% before DR - 19.17% dodge on char sheet
839 Dodge Rating - 18.54% before DR - 17.78% dodge on char sheet
766 Dodge Rating - 16.93% before DR - 16.77% dodge on char sheet
579 Dodge Rating - 12.80% before DR - 13.86% dodge on char sheet * this also has a -10 agi from 1 shifting dreadstone

The only thing that changes when I have an empty talent spec is that my stamina gets reduced and my block rating becomes 5% (because I lose Divine Bulwark).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arianne » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:38 pm

theckhd wrote:That shouldn't be too hard though, I really just need to compare 0/3 to 3/3 and see how much of an increase we get. The other two sets (1/3 and 2/3) are just sanity checks.

Also, try and take note of Censure damage if you could. It scales with SP and AP, so performing the test naked (except for weapon) might be better for that. I think SotP might be affecting Censure based on Kysen's data in another thread, this test would confirm or refute that.


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/u67j ... details/9/

This is a log of 5 minute increments of testing of SotP with ~1 minute intervals in between on the Heroic Training Dummy in Exodar on the PTR 9/25/2010. I tried to make sure there was nothing affecting damage on the dummy and some extended pauses were to wait for things to wear off. The dummy appears to be bugged in that Frost Fever does not have a duration and is always present. I dunno if that would cause any issues.

This was done with the same set of gear except for varying weapons.
1: No Talents. Mithrios 271 reforged to have 15 mastery (56 str, 239.4 dps, 111 sta, parry 74, expertise 23, mastery 15).
2: Protection + 3/3 Divinity. Mithrios
3: Protection + 3/3 Divinity. Last Word (250.5 dps, 124 sta)
4: Protection + 3/3 Divinity. Bloodfall (2 hand, 325.8 dps, 175 agi, 251 sta, 60 str, 122 crit strike, 98 haste)
5: Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 1 SotP. Mithrios
6: Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 1 SotP. Last Word
7: Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 2 SotP. Mithrios
8: Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 2 SotP. Last Word
9: Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 3 SotP. Mithrios
10:Protection + 3/3 Divinity + 3 SotP. Last Word (10 minutes)
Last edited by Arianne on Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:09 pm

Thanks. Just looking at parses 3 and 10, it's clear that you get a 15% boost to Censure's tick damage with 3 points in SotP. Myth confirmed!
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arianne » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:07 pm

Need anything else?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:15 pm

Arianne wrote:Need anything else?

More time to code! :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:59 pm

Just committed what is likely the "final" version of prio_sim, as far as framework is concerned. I abandoned the "on-the-fly" damage calculations - they gave me no more flexibility than the post-processing versions and slowed the simulation down significantly.

The sample queue seems to be giving good results. A simulation of one hour of combat (36000 timesteps of 0.1s each) gives me consistency within +/- 10 DPS for each ability in the queue, and only takes roughly 10 seconds on my laptop. It should scale mostly linearly, so a 5-hours simulation should only take about a minute. Obviously it'll all be faster on a faster machine.

I have a raid tonight and want to try and spend some time on the beta before that. I'll try and find some time tomorrow to continue coding. Here's where we're going next:

1) I'd like one or two people to check the prio_sim code for consistency. Read over it and see if it makes sense, ask questions about how it works, run it and see if the results are sensible. I didn't comment it as well as I would like, but it should be fairly obvious what's going on.

2) We need to nail down the ability_module code to make sure it's spitting out reasonable ability damages. I plan on defining a default gear set comprised of the tanking gear on the lvl 85 premades on beta - using this and no buffs, we should be able to check for significant errors in this module. If anyone would like to work one step ahead of me and parse a bunch of abilities on a boss dummy with a premade for me, that would be great. What we're looking for is the average damage each ability does to an un-debuffed dummy. For a "default" spec, just spec into every prot talent and none in ret or holy, that way there's no question what talents we have.

3) We need to code prio_model with all of the possible priority queues we're interested in. This includes everything from AS>CS vs. CS>AS to replacing ShoR with Inq for single targets to AoE rotations. If you guys could get brainstorming about realistic possibilities for rotations and post them here, that would help. As an example, the default is:
Code: Select all
Judge (for SD) if 'hopo>=3 && ccd.CS>1.5 && ccd.Jud<=0 && dur.SD<=0';...
ShoR      if 'hopo>=3';...
CS        if 'ccd.CS<=0';...
Judgement if 'ccd.Jud<=0';...
AS        if 'ccd.AS<=0';...
Holy Wra  if 'ccd.HoWr<=0'; ...
Cons      if 'ccd.Cons<=0'};


There are a number of obvious variations we'll want to try though. For example:

SD>ShoR>AS>CS>Jud>HoWr>Cons ("Is it worth pushing CS back for AS?)
SD>ShoR(if ccd.CS<1.5)>AS>ShoR>CS>Jud>HoWr>Cons ("Is it worth saving ShoR for the very last second?")
SD>AS>ShoR>CS>Jud>HoWr>Cons ("Is it worth pushing CS and ShoR back for AS?")
AS>ShoR>CS>Jud>HoWR>Cons ("Is it worth trying to get Sacred Duty procs?")
SD>(2+)ShoR (if SD up)>CS>Jud>AS>HoWr>Cons ("Is it worth using ShoR with 2 holy power as long as SD is active?")
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Alandrek » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:57 pm

Testing to see whether Inquisition is better than Shield of the Righteous is simple.

Inquisition buffs all Holy damage by 30% and lasts 12 seconds with 3 Holy Power. So if 30% of all our other Holy damage is more than SotR would hit for, Inquisition becomes better. Technically, there is one GCD that won't be covered by Inquisition each time, but that should be the CS that gives us our third Holy Power for the next Inquisition.

1 / 1.3 = 0.7692 (the break-even point for total Holy damage other than SotR)

So if SotR is less than 23.08% of our total Holy damage, Inquisition becomes better for single-target threat.

EDIT: Actually, there's one more factor - that CS after Inquisition fades will proc the SoT instant damage, which won't be affected by Inquisition. There's also a chance of an auto-attack during that GCD. However, if the code determines ability damage before it runs priority simulations it could use 23% as a test to determine whether it's worth bothering to test for replacing SotR with Inquisition for single-target.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:45 pm

While that's true in a general sense, it's not a sufficient condition. By looking at holy damage in aggregate, you're averaging out all of our holy abilities.

However, not all GCDs are created equal. Since HW and Cons are on fairly long cooldowns, there will be periods in our rotation where Inq is more attractive than others.

Example, ignoring GC procs:

ShoR-CS-J-X-CS-X-X-CS-J-ShoR-CS-HW-Cons-CS-J-X-CS-ShoR-X

Now if you replace the first ShoR with Inq, you just get two Judgements worth of boost (plus any AS procs). However, if you replace the second ShoR with Inq, you buff the underline section - J, HW, and Cons (again, plus any AS procs). So using Inq lined up with your Cons cooldown could potentially be a DPS increase, even when ShoR is more damage than the limiting condition you listed.

Of course, this will all depend somewhat on the final damage tuning of Cons, HW, and Judgement.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Alandrek » Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:53 pm

True - I was ignoring Consecration in particular, probably because I'm hoping they'll adjust our rotation so we don't want to use it for single-target tanking.
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