Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

[Epimer]

Or because of the WoG-portion ?

Bingo. For as long as single target threat is trivialised by other mechanics, a talent point which provides a minor buff to a survival ability > more threat.

[Schroom]

So with the new "Threat doesn't matter" thing how does it change us?

rotation, talents, glyphs.

for example would it be worth it now to change completely away from the Seal of truth to the Seal of Insight?

the same for the glyph of both seals?

[Jeremoot]

So with the new "Threat doesn't matter" thing how does it change us?

rotation, talents, glyphs.

for example would it be worth it now to change completely away from the Seal of truth to the Seal of Insight?

the same for the glyph of both seals?

It hasn't changed. Threat didn't matter before, and it doesn't matter now. Most Paladins have been using Seal of Insight.

[Schroom]

yeah after having threat I usually switched to insight too. Although for trash and the first seconds of a Boss fight truth was the thing to make sure to be first in Omen from the start.

[boneyjellyfish]

I'll be using insight for the most part now and switching to truth for DPS burn phases (i.e. Shannox normal, Beth'tilac, Alysrazor adds). There really isn't much of a point to using truth now otherwise.

I'm interested in seeing how this all plays out with the "active mitigation" ideas they have, but at least until 4.3 hits things are going to be pretty boring.

[theckhd]

SoI is a pretty pitiful amount of survivability in most circumstances. It comes down to a question not of threat, but of DPS. Is the 3-4k DPS of SoT worth trading for the small survivability gain of SoI. Personally I don't think I've used SoI since T11, so for me it's probably not, but YMMV.

Also, this discussion doesn't really belong in this thread.

[theckhd]

Question: Is there any point in keeping the "TPS" columns in the rotation simulation data dump anymore? I want to go through and do an update some time this coming week, and one of the potential clean-up tasks is to removing that column from the tables if it's no longer interesting.

[Jeremoot]

Question: Is there any point in keeping the "TPS" columns in the rotation simulation data dump anymore? I want to go through and do an update some time this coming week, and one of the potential clean-up tasks is to removing that column from the tables if it's no longer interesting.

TPS is a rather moot point now, but that's not to say they won't change it again in a later patch.

[theckhd]

TPS is a rather moot point now, but that's not to say they won't change it again in a later patch.

I'm not suggesting that we nuke all of the TPS code, just that I cut it out of the pretty-print table that the code generates. It's two lines of code, I can easily add it back in later if we suddenly care about threat again.

[Jeremoot]

Might as well comment it out, I can't imagine a situation where we care about TPS right now.

[Treck]

With the current system, tps is an outdated system, and people might aswell start using dps instead.
If you expect your dpsers to do increase their damage whatever way they can, i can assure you that YOU can increase your dps by a lot more than they usually can.
And that without really affecting your healers aswell.

[Worldie]

I agree with Treck. People should really start considering the best ways to improve their own DPS.

Replace the TPS code with a DPS one imo, after all they are exactly the same bar a x5 modifier.

[braiel]

with the change to censure how much more of a dps increase does it make keeping inq up?

[theckhd]

Not very much. It's still ahead, but the margin hasn't grown significantly.

I have the code updated, I just need to find time to post the results. Probably later today.

[theckhd]

All results should now be updated for 4.2.2. I'm now using the T12 heroic gear set, and I've axed the threat columns in the rotation sim.

Also, for those curious about DPS scaling with tier gear, here are some limited results from the rotation sim for each gear set using the SotR>CS>AS>J>Cons>HW rotation.

Code: Select all

Set         DPS    ilvl
Pre-raid: 14988    357.4
T11:      15196    359
T11H:     16297    368.9
T12:      17498    378
T12H:     18730    391

The ilvl values for each set are an arithmetic mean (i.e. not slot weighted). I'm not sure if this is how the game actually calculates your average ilvl, or if it uses a similar slot weighting to the itemization formulas. If anyone knows for sure, let me know. In any event, the T11, T12, and T12H sets are identically 359, 378, and 391 respectively. The T11H set uses one or two 359 pieces (cloak, ring, relic, mirror), and the pre-raid set is a mish-mash of 353-365 items.