Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby golfinguy » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:14 am

theckhd wrote:
Awyndel wrote:One question though. Are we not jumping on the 22 expertise ( 95 rating with glyph ) boat? Or are these graphs for 85?

These graphs are for level 80. I've just assumed the "proper" functioning of the expertise formula, figuring that they'll fix the bug sooner or later. I saw a post on EJ last night that it was fixed, but they didn't provide any proof, so who knows.

If it's still bugged, the formulas above will be slightly off, but using (12-22) as the range for the first formula should correct it for most of the cases we're interested in.


The common thinking on EJ is that its not a bug, that it is working much the same way hit is - reduced now and return to well known values at 85. (and that the poster of 'its fixed' was talking out his arse :wink: )

Its not documented like hit though, so its hard to be 100% sure.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AriKT » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:37 am

AriKT wrote:
Treck wrote:Soul Reaper is Shadowstrike dmg.
Thus if you reduce your dmg taken from magic sources to much, the SR hit will become physical.
DP glyph for SR is a bad idea.


Pretty sure my physical damage reduction from armor is more than 40%.


Looked at the dataset closer. Seems between Friday and Saturday they fixed the DP Glyph to work properly, instead of the bugged 20% physical and 40% magical reduction.

The first part of Reaper is effected by armor and resists, so it was getting a 40% magic reduction, and the second part ignores armor and resists so it was getting the 20% bugged reduction on Friday, but not on Saturday.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby kenshin648 » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:46 pm

So does all this mean I should forget my bonebreaker scepter and try to get a good, slow dps weapon?

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:09 pm

kenshin648 wrote:So does all this mean I should forget my bonebreaker scepter and try to get a good, slow dps weapon?

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Emrfishsix


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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AdaskoTheBeAsT » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:36 pm

Hi Theck,

could you please add also Quel'Delar, Cunning of the Shadows to analyzed weapons?

Thanks

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Metherlance » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:22 pm

AdaskoTheBeAsT wrote:Hi Theck,

could you please add also Quel'Delar, Cunning of the Shadows to analyzed weapons?

Thanks

Adasko


I'm not theck, but hopefully my answer will do too. :)

It has values of 8560dps (4% hit, 18 exp) and 9086dps (8% hit, 26 exp). So it comes between Stormpike Cleaver (Heroic) and Remorseless (Heroic) in the pretty graphs.

So it is a great threat weapon indeed.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby AdaskoTheBeAsT » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:36 am

Hi,

thanks :)

I had to ask GM second time to retrieve my Broken Promise back :lol:
there was once such patch when BP was really ahead of many weapons and now history made a circle ;)

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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Awyndel » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:26 am

kenshin648 wrote:So does all this mean I should forget my bonebreaker scepter and try to get a good, slow dps weapon?

Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... Emrfishsix


For threat, yes. But compare the agility and stamina if you want to know about survival. Don't use bladeward for threat though, use accuracy or 65 ap.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arianne » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:45 am

GC clarified that the 22 expertise change is not a bug:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7423&sid=1

GhostCrawler wrote:Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures (which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a desired change on our part.

At level 85, you will need 26 again.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kuma » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:14 pm

I know it may sound silly, but since Broken Promise ended up high on the charts due to the hit and expertise...

How does The Horseman's Baleful Blade look in comparison? Just curious.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Herrbjorn » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:48 pm

Kuma wrote:I know it may sound silly, but since Broken Promise ended up high on the charts due to the hit and expertise...

How does The Horseman's Baleful Blade look in comparison? Just curious.


I posted this the other day, Theck was nice enough to throw it up on the charts. Does pretty well against ICC level tank weapons.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Kuma » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:51 pm

Herrbjorn wrote:
Kuma wrote:I know it may sound silly, but since Broken Promise ended up high on the charts due to the hit and expertise...

How does The Horseman's Baleful Blade look in comparison? Just curious.


I posted this the other day, Theck was nice enough to throw it up on the charts. Does pretty well against ICC level tank weapons.


Ah, very cool. I didn't notice it in his chart until now. I might have to give it a go and see how many guildies laugh at me :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:45 pm

Arianne wrote:GC clarified that the 22 expertise change is not a bug:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7423&sid=1

GhostCrawler wrote:Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures (which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a desired change on our part.

At level 85, you will need 26 again.


I saw that, but I don't think it's important enough to rerun all of the calculations just because of this. In the grand scheme of things, it just means that you treat 23 as the soft-cap (though I thought it was closer to 22 based on EJ testing, but whatever). The expertise stat weighting graph just gets a slight axis scaling, but otherwise looks identical.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Chicken » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:37 pm

theckhd wrote:
Arianne wrote:GC clarified that the 22 expertise change is not a bug:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 7423&sid=1

GhostCrawler wrote:Due to recalibrating expertise for Cataclysm, level 80-83 creatures (which includes bosses) dodge and parry less, so you need less expertise, 23, to be exact. Sorry we didn't announce this. I would classify it as an unintended consequence (though not unknown) and not a desired change on our part.

At level 85, you will need 26 again.


I saw that, but I don't think it's important enough to rerun all of the calculations just because of this. In the grand scheme of things, it just means that you treat 23 as the soft-cap (though I thought it was closer to 22 based on EJ testing, but whatever). The expertise stat weighting graph just gets a slight axis scaling, but otherwise looks identical.
It's apparently 5.6% dodge, which is 22.4 expertise. I'd guess Ghostcrawler just used the 23 expertise number as that's what the character screen shows, despite it being the case that expertise rating works even if it doesn't give you extra expertise on the character window.

For anyone curious, the expertise dodge cap should be at 173 expertise rating without the SoT glyph, or at 96 expertise rating with the SoT glyph at level 80 due to this.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB thread - Cataclysm/4.x

Postby Arianne » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:57 pm

I wasn't suggesting re-running the sims, but just updating the front page of this post to remove the note about 22 expertise being a bug on 4.0.1 live.

As a dwarf using a mace and receiving 3 expertise from that, I should only need 96 - 3*7.68 = 73 rating with the SoT glyph?
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