The Bleeding Edge of TPS

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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby inthedrops » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:03 am

I still don't even have a 277 dps weapon, or a trinket to replace DMC-G
/jealous
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Halogen » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:01 am

Thanks for all the work put into the sims and initial idea of this setup Mel and Tiltp, however I currently have two grey areas

I've been looking through the ICC loot table for a readily available weapon to replace my Souldbreaker (264) or Gutbuster (264) Both are gemmed Str with a Berserking enchant. I came across Scourgeborne Waraxe (277). While it does have a DPS value of 250.7 it's speed is merely 1.5, the stats on it are quite similar (Arp instead of Haste or Hit) also the loss of 3 expertise due to racial would have to be considered. I did check Theck's TPS comparison tables in the 3.0 MATLAB TPS thread, however he didn't compare 1.5 speed weapons because of the similarity to tank weapons, does this still hold true even at a higher DPS value?

The other grey area was how well Herkumi's proc performed when compared to DMC:G or a 245 DV, bearing in mind I am more concerned about tank DPS rather than TPS given that after a certain point (where you hold aggro) TPS doesn't assist your raid in any manner, whilst DPS does. Oh and because TPS isn't tracked on WoL :D

Edit: There is no possibility of me obtaining a 277 BVB or LK 25 HM wep, there is however a very slim chance I may be able to obtain an LK 10 HM wep
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Creepy » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:48 am

Hello to the maintankadin community!

First I want to give a big thank you to the moderators and community of this great forum. I am a long time reader (would guess around two years now), but never posted anything before. This is definitely the best forum for paladin tanking I ever saw.

So, back to topic: I was reading this with great interest to try it myself. But my old ICC raid dissolved a couple of month ago, we just had 9/12 HM but did only very few runs with HM.

So I tried to form a new ICC raid, which was quite a lot of work at this time. But now we startet and this week was our second ID. We are far away from clearing ICC, right now we are at 8/12. On normal, of course. No way to clear ICC. A lot of new players, but some experienced players are with us.

Since I allways wanted to try this and participate in high-dps numbers (yesss, epeen!) and after reading Anafielles posts, I could not resist to just try it in this new raid.
So, last week I just put on some pieces of ret gear, but stayed in full tank spec. The results were quite ok for me, around 10,5k dps. The log is here:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i2tt9pd7i52yz2lc/sum/damageDone/?s=7130&e=7367

I informed no one before, just did it.:-) Oh, some noticed it, aaah yes, the comments were good!

This week I respecced (thank you, Meloree), reglyphed, regemmed one piece. There are not to many more choices I have to switch gear. You can see my armory here:

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Baelgun&n=creepy

Basically I am unbuffed at 30k armor and 38k health. Just remember, this raid is just in the beginning, I did not want to go lower in def-stats.
The results were better, 12,6k dps, but of course far away from impressive. I have to say, I screwed up some things: rotation (respecced just shortly before, did not find anything, aaaahh), forgot to take some speed pot (which I wanted to), forgot to take the armor pot (before pulling, just to give the healers some more breath). But I think what hurts me most is the kill time of far over 4 minutes. Anyway, the result is here:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/plda3eu2zd1f59a5/sum/damageDone/?s=6024&e=6277

If I just look at festergut 25normal, that’s an 9th place overall. Yes, this was good for my epeen (hi Anafielle, love your posts, I am a big fan of Rhidachs blog by the way).

So, basically that’s it, nothing more to say, maybe you have some suggestions, but I doubt that there will be another chance for me to try this again, because patch 4.0.1 hitting the servers soon.
Anyway, another big thanks to Meloree, it was a lot of fun for me!
A lot of more thanks to all the great users here and the incredible useful postings and guides. I could not tank anymore without his forum.

Best regards,

Creepy

Please excuse any typos and/or grammatical issues, my english is not the best.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Artifa » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:03 pm

Picky (US-Lightning's Blade) checking in. I did this on Festergut this week (mainly for epeen) and despite some problems it worked out quite well for me today. The set I used was the best I could manage based on the items I had available and looked like this:

264 Ret Tier helm
277 Bile Encrusted Medallion
277 Boneguard Commander's Pauldrons
277 Blightborne Warplate
277 Polar Bear Claw Bracers (AP)
277 Prot Tier gloves (AP)
258 Bloodbath Girdle (ToGC expertise)
277 Prot Tier Legs
277 Grinning Skull Greatboots (Icewalker)
277 Skeleton Lord's Circle
277 Devium's Eternally Cold Ring
245 Death's Choice
251 Whispering Fanged Skull
277 Bloodvenom Blade (berserking)
277 Icecrown Glacial Wall
245 Libram of Valiance

I was at 540 defense exactly, but still using the pvp shoulder enchant. I was rushing around before raid to get it set up and forgot to replace that enchant. I was a bit over hit cap at 272 but couldn't drop it anywhere to stay capped, and just under expertise hard cap (50 expertise). Also I was a little nervous after last week (my AD popped around my 7th or 8th stack) and the fact that this week I had switched to Meloree's spec, losing the 3% less damage taken from Shield of the Templar and 3% less damage taken from the Divine Plea glyph. It turned out okay. I popped wings early instead of while under the effect of the debuff, and I got malleable goo'd three times for a 30% uptime on the fight (ouch). I still managed to pull just under 15k which was 7th in the world for Prot Pallies on Festergut 25H, on world of logs.

I just wanted to check in and make light of what a great post this is and what fun it was to take what I did from it and go to town on Festergut. I'm hoping for a 10/19 4.0 release so I get another chance to do better next week, but regardless next Tuesday should be lots of fun either way. If the patch doesn't come out next week, I'll be more comfortable and hopefully able to avoid the malleable goo, and put up much higher numbers seeing as I lost a lot of melee and seal damage.

I know its not much help this late, but I skimmed the thread and didn't see this posted. Instead of Potions of Speed, today I was using Wild Magic potions (double potting them) as I figured the spell power and crit would help a lot more. I didn't put the kind of math into it that some of you guys do (which I'm very thankful for) but as a rough estimate I assumed a haste potion would give maybe one or two extra melee swing in the 15 seconds and do very little for for GCD reduction, whereas the crit and spell power would buff everything we do in those 15 seconds.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby sculder » Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:01 am

just fyi, you can run @537 defense with the pvp shoulder enchant and still be over the cap :) I think 536 is where you start to be <0.1% below the cap, but it might be 535...
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby anafielle » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:32 pm

I will mourn the end of this when 4.0 drops.

We did Festergut 25 normal for the achievement several weeks ago and I landed #2 on WOL, and all I could think about was how irritated I was that I didn't get #1. And I haven't had a chance to first tank Festergut in my fun fun party times gear in several weeks due to missing raids and other BS. So I miss my epeen gear.

I never parse hunted for real, but I loved this thread. /salute
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Sacred Duty: Theck, Meloree & Ana's blog

"Hold on, hold on, let me make sure I've got this straight. You're telling me that a critical part of our strategy for this fight will be to have the ret paladins go stand in the fire? Yeah, we can handle that." -- DSWarden
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Meloree » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:09 pm

Who said it's over? I'll admit I've done no parse-chasing for a bit, due to other raid priorities, but 4.0.1 only ups the ante. It's like any major patch - this round of the competition is over. New competition starts next week.

New mechanics, new challenges. Figure out the survival minimum, and start cranking up the DPS. Why? Why not. Personally, I'm psyched for it.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby anafielle » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:20 pm

I just don't know how long we'll be raiding post 4.0. Things look a little bit... messy.

In other news, I missed raids this week, and both Tiny Abom and the LK weapon went offspec for the first time. My raid knows I wanted both and took great pleasure in rubbing this in as soon as I came online. >< Very sad...
Anafielle, 90 Retribution Paladin in <Something Wicked> :: Armory :: Twitter

Sacred Duty: Theck, Meloree & Ana's blog

"Hold on, hold on, let me make sure I've got this straight. You're telling me that a critical part of our strategy for this fight will be to have the ret paladins go stand in the fire? Yeah, we can handle that." -- DSWarden
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Meloree » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:50 pm

anafielle wrote:I just don't know how long we'll be raiding post 4.0. Things look a little bit... messy.

In other news, I missed raids this week, and both Tiny Abom and the LK weapon went offspec for the first time. My raid knows I wanted both and took great pleasure in rubbing this in as soon as I came online. >< Very sad...


A big part of me thinks "the messier the better". It'll be almost like having progression content again.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Vrimmel » Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:24 am

Meloree wrote:Who said it's over? I'll admit I've done no parse-chasing for a bit, due to other raid priorities, but 4.0.1 only ups the ante. It's like any major patch - this round of the competition is over. New competition starts next week.

New mechanics, new challenges. Figure out the survival minimum, and start cranking up the DPS. Why? Why not. Personally, I'm psyched for it.


Hats off for this. I'm amazed. Btw, do you have any video or parse for the raid? And is that time for the entire raid or just boss kill time?
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Meloree » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:06 pm

Vrimmel wrote:
Meloree wrote:Who said it's over? I'll admit I've done no parse-chasing for a bit, due to other raid priorities, but 4.0.1 only ups the ante. It's like any major patch - this round of the competition is over. New competition starts next week.

New mechanics, new challenges. Figure out the survival minimum, and start cranking up the DPS. Why? Why not. Personally, I'm psyched for it.


Hats off for this. I'm amazed. Btw, do you have any video or parse for the raid? And is that time for the entire raid or just boss kill time?


It's just boss-kill time. We didn't take videos. The parses are linked, though, in that link above.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Kihra » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:23 pm

Meloree wrote:
Vrimmel wrote:
Meloree wrote:Who said it's over? I'll admit I've done no parse-chasing for a bit, due to other raid priorities, but 4.0.1 only ups the ante. It's like any major patch - this round of the competition is over. New competition starts next week.

New mechanics, new challenges. Figure out the survival minimum, and start cranking up the DPS. Why? Why not. Personally, I'm psyched for it.


Hats off for this. I'm amazed. Btw, do you have any video or parse for the raid? And is that time for the entire raid or just boss kill time?


It's just boss-kill time. We didn't take videos. The parses are linked, though, in that link above.


Isn't wowmeteronline kind of behind? It seems like worldoflogs has many more kills uploaded, and shows some much better times than that page. For example Rotface kills:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/zones/Icecro ... tface/25H/

Is it that world of logs doesn't show the timed total for all bosses in a run? Maybe they should add that! :)
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Meloree » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:37 pm

Kihra wrote:
Isn't wowmeteronline kind of behind? It seems like worldoflogs has many more kills uploaded, and shows some much better times than that page.

Is it that world of logs doesn't show the timed total for all bosses in a run? Maybe they should add that! :)


That page is US. We only ended up like world 13th. And the boss-rush time was the more interesting one for us.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Kihra » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:37 am

My guild doesn't go into ICC until Wednesday, but I've built a really extreme threat set to try out. Basically I'm going to try wearing all DPS gear with excess Hit reforged into Mastery and Haste reforged into Mastery. I left Crit and Expertise alone.

For gem slots, I'm trying Agi/Stam in blue, Str/Crit in yellow and Str in red. Enchants are all for DPS.

I still have about 42k health, 10% dodge, 15% parry, and over 30% block. Armor is down to 25k unbuffed. This seems like a viable set to try tanking in.

I'm curious what others' thoughts are about gemming and stats. I'm basically making a guess that our stat weighting will work out to Hit (to cap) > Exp (soft cap) > Str > Crit > Exp (hard cap) > Haste, but I haven't mathed it out.
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Re: The Bleeding Edge of TPS

Postby Meloree » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:16 am

Kihra wrote:My guild doesn't go into ICC until Wednesday, but I've built a really extreme threat set to try out. Basically I'm going to try wearing all DPS gear with excess Hit reforged into Mastery and Haste reforged into Mastery. I left Crit and Expertise alone.

For gem slots, I'm trying Agi/Stam in blue, Str/Crit in yellow and Str in red. Enchants are all for DPS.

I still have about 42k health, 10% dodge, 15% parry, and over 30% block. Armor is down to 25k unbuffed. This seems like a viable set to try tanking in.

I'm curious what others' thoughts are about gemming and stats. I'm basically making a guess that our stat weighting will work out to Hit (to cap) > Exp (soft cap) > Str > Crit > Exp (hard cap) > Haste, but I haven't mathed it out.


You're braver than I am, I'm wearing full-out tank gear for week one. I want to let the healers have some small chance to get used to their new mechanics. Your set seems reasonable, although I'd do str/stam in blue, for a DPS set. I wouldn't be surprised if you found that stamina was reasonably competitive as a DPS stat, though - somewhere in the ballpark of crit - when you can keep vengeance stacked. That can be a problem, though.

We didn't bother trying to raid ICC or Halion last night, we took the night off to let people get their UI's in shape, but we did 15-man a ToC25 for those of us who wanted a bit of practice. I found threat to be extremely twitchy with very low levels of vengeance (Jaraxxus, Icehowl, start of any fight), so those DPS sets for old content are still going to get some use. I have a suspicion that there will be no threat issues at all in ICC, with full progression gear. Funny, I thought tanking old content without your pants was a problem that vengeance was supposed to solve. With the decay it seems to have now - not so much.
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