@theckhd Blood Draining Question

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@theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Arees » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:11 pm

I know quite a while back you did a simulation to determine the chance of SoV falling off a mob because it couldn't be refreshed (even though I can't find it... I fail at searching), and I was wondering if you could modify that to do the same for blood draining.

The information I can gather is that it has a 50% proc rate, a 10 second icd, and the buff lasts for 20 seconds. This is the buff you get.

I also want to test and see if the heal comes before or after the heal from AD. If its before, then its no where near as effective as if its after. I'm not sure how I should test this though... any advice?
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Iselian » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:07 pm

Snag yourself a caster and duel. Beat on him/her until BD stacks up, while letting them whittle you close to 35% health. When your stack is up and your health is down (all of this in the duel) have them push below the 35% threshold. Repeat... maybe 5 times, if you get bored too quickly? Check combat log on what proc'd first, or better yet /combatlog and load it up to a site where we can go through it. I recommend an elemental shaman, boomchicken or shadow priest, since they can heal themselves.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:02 am

It's basically the same as the Mongoose calculation.

drop-off chance = (1-s1*t)^N1 * (1-s2*t(3-3*t+t^2))^N2

In this case, t=0.5, and for the sake of argument let s1=1-avoid=0.9, s2=1-miss=0.975 (7.5% parry, 2.5% miss).

The buff lasts 20 seconds, but has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds. So for the buff to drop off, you need to have 0 procs within a 10-second period.

For a worst-case estimate, let's say that your Judgement lands smack in the middle of that period, so you only make one Judgement in 10 seconds. Similarly, let's say the same happens with HotR. With a swing speed of 1.3, you're guaranteed 6 melee attacks within that time. So N1=6+1 (melee+HotR), N2=1 (judgement). So your worst-case scenario gives a drop-off chance of 0.0022, or 0.22%

For testing the proc, the easiest thing I can think of is to grab a healer and go duo Gormok. Once you have a 5-stack, have your healer stop healing, and /sit. After a couple attempts at this, you should be able to get a combat log where you dropped to a value above 35% and then got crit for >35% of your health. The combat log and Acheron/GR death report should be able to tell you which fires first.

For an "average" case where you get 10/1.3=7.7 melee attacks, 1.67 HotR's, and 1.11 Judgements, the drop-off chance drops to 0.0442%. In a best case, where you get 8 melees, 2 HotRs, and 2 Judgements, it drops to 0.0055%.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Meloree » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:42 am

ShoR is melee now... it doesn't proc Blood Draining? I'd just assumed, I hadn't looked.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:56 am

Meloree wrote:ShoR is melee now... it doesn't proc Blood Draining? I'd just assumed, I hadn't looked.

Nope, sadly testing has revealed that ShoR still doesn't proc Mongoose (and thus presumably not Blood Draining either).

Based on the changes to Byrntoll and the tests we've run, my guess is that each ability has a flag for proccing enchants and other PPM-based effects. When they turned off Byrntoll procs from HV applications, it also turned off enchant procs from HV applications. This seems to indicate that it's a single flag that controls this (and a separate flag from the one that controls seal procs, since ShoR procs seals but not enchants!).

On the other hand, Blood Draining is apparently a flat 50% chance per attack. So it may work off of different mechanics than PPM effects, as in it may not be affected by this flag.

This could be tested relatively easily by meleeing a dummy with SoV active for a while and observing the uptime, and then repeating with no seal. The only difference in those two should be the presence of HV applications, so any statistically significant difference in uptime would indicate that Blood Draining uses different mechanics.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Meloree » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:45 pm

Or the more direct method, I just went and ShoR'd a dummy with my crusader's glory/blood draining equipped. No melee swings, 5 minute test, hit ShoR on cooldown, no procs. No seals were active, either.

Pretty unlikely that ShoR procs Blood Draining. Oh, well.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:48 pm

Meloree wrote:Or the more direct method, I just went and ShoR'd a dummy with my crusader's glory/blood draining equipped. No melee swings, 5 minute test, hit ShoR on cooldown, no procs. No seals were active, either.

Pretty unlikely that ShoR procs Blood Draining. Oh, well.


True, that shows that ShoR can't proc it. It doesn't, however, answer the question of whether BD uses different mechanics than other enchants for the purposes of HV applications. Though it strongly suggests it doesn't.

You could imagine that there are two flags, one for whether the ability allows enchant procs for PPM and one for whether the ability procs "other" enchants. ShoR could have both turned off, while HV could only have one turned off. I think this is pretty unlikely though, it would make more sense to have a single flag.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Gamingdevil » Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:09 pm

So, has anyone tested yet if BD procced before or after AD? I'd do it myself, but I don't have a weapon with Blood Draining :(
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Arees » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:54 am

Gamingdevil wrote:So, has anyone tested yet if BD procced before or after AD? I'd do it myself, but I don't have a weapon with Blood Draining :(


I'm going to test when I get a chance. Was out of town this weekend and when I got home my internet was down. Stupid AT&T with their network outages.... I'm at work now.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Chicken » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:52 am

Gamingdevil wrote:So, has anyone tested yet if BD procced before or after AD? I'd do it myself, but I don't have a weapon with Blood Draining :(
Blood Draining doesn't interfere with AD in any way. It basically just works on a very simple basis of "Oh you just took a hit, are you below 35% health now? If you are, I heal you and the buff disappears." It does not stop AD from working if Blood Draining would have brought you back above 35% health, since Blood Draining isn't checked until after the hit has been done, and AD's effect has occured.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Gamingdevil » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:40 am

That's not what I wanted to know though. Say, you got hit for 40% of your hp while being at 38% (taking AD reduction into account).

Both AD's and BD's conditions are fulfilled. Will BD heal you and then AD put you at 30% or will AD put you at 30% and then BD heal you?
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Arees » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:03 am

WATERBOYsh wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:So, has anyone tested yet if BD procced before or after AD? I'd do it myself, but I don't have a weapon with Blood Draining :(


I'm going to test when I get a chance. Was out of town this weekend and when I got home my internet was down. Stupid AT&T with their network outages.... I'm at work now.


I should have time to test it tonight. Last night was raid night. I'm pretty sure I have a LL in my bank with blood draining on it. If not, I'm not going to reenchant my weapon just to test it and someone else will have to.
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Re: @theckhd Blood Draining Question

Postby Blar » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:54 pm

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Combat log has AD proccing before Blood Draining.
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