Stam Cap???

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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby bldavis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:32 pm

Flex wrote:My warrior co-tank and I both sit at 50Kish buffed in 10 mans and we explode on Festergut with two healers.


that is why i normally run with 3 :twisted:
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Ulrik » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:01 pm

I was in a party for the random daily with another pally so I gave us 30 min kings and then myself sanc. The I see this in chat:

PugPally - "You at the hp cap?"
Ulrik - "what?"
PugPally - "Well I'm putting kings on you and your hp doesn't go up"
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Shathus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:03 pm

Ulrik wrote:I was in a party for the random daily with another pally so I gave us 30 min kings and then myself sanc. The I see this in chat:

PugPally - "You at the hp cap?"
Ulrik - "what?"
PugPally - "Well I'm putting kings on you and your hp doesn't go up"


you're probably at the strength cap too then :shock:
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby rocket » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:47 pm

bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:My warrior co-tank and I both sit at 50Kish buffed in 10 mans and we explode on Festergut with two healers.


that is why i normally run with 3 :twisted:


3 tanks in a 10 man?
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby rocket » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:54 pm

kysu wrote:
Antique wrote:my warrior cotank was literally oneshotted by fenstergut25 in our first attempt when he taunted of me at 3 stacks (i think he has like 58k raidbuffed) so yeah im sticking with stamina (and armor)


Speaking of that anyone else run with warrior tanks that seem to get rolfstomped alot?


i think our AD popping has given (myself included) a huge sense of invulnerability...where a warrior or any other class sans a Guardian Spirit would have kicked the bucket and the trusty pally tank lives another day. this was particularly noticeable on Gormok on heroic 25 TotGC.

i hate the thought of "fixing us" but having some incredible survivability stats, and on top of that being able to put out 6-7k dps in a 25man on trash (and similarly high numbers on heroics) makes me think that something might be coming.

dont get me wrong, i think our current capabilities are long overdue as i was my pally from day 1, and lived through 40 man 5-minute blessings, to healing for 3 years(since we really couldnt tank or dps well in vanilla), to being only an AOE offtank through BC, to now one of the cherished MTs in our guild.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Zexodus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Ulrik,

The reason that you're HPs didn't go up when you got Kings was that you already have a +10% Sta buff from BoSanc and they do not stack if I understand correctly. That would also be why someone joked that you were at the "Str cap" as well.

Edit: Just reread your post and sounds more like the other pally didn't understand that and not you. Woops
Last edited by Zexodus on Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby bldavis » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:27 am

rocket wrote:
bldavis wrote:
Flex wrote:My warrior co-tank and I both sit at 50Kish buffed in 10 mans and we explode on Festergut with two healers.


that is why i normally run with 3 :twisted:


3 tanks in a 10 man?

i have a feeling your just being a smart ass but just in case

bldavis wrote:that is why i normally run with 3 healers:twisted:


there fixt
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby fuzzygeek » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:59 pm

3 healers in a 10 man is spoiling them. :lol:
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby bldavis » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:47 am

i have little faith in pugs and in my guidl, we hav e a lil confidence issue with our gm on her priest

she is a GREAT raid heals, but refuses to g owith just 2 heals. as in we almost kick her, but she is the GM. worst thing is our other main healer is her hubby, the tree. so if we kick her, not only are we in trouble with our GM but we also lose our other hlr.

I really do like my guild, i just need to a) pug raids only, or b) get my GM to realize she is a DAM good healer, skill and gear whise(mostly t8 gear, and were doing Naxx!)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby 2ndNin » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:37 am

"Popping" on those fights isn't unusual due to the tank change (if you are popping at another point its just bad or insufficient healing). The swap is hard because you taunt at the boss doing + significant damage and the first hit is likely to be caught on a partial swing timer, meaning you get 2 hits faster than normal (or rather appearing to be faster than normal because the healers weren't fully on the 2nd target when the switch occurs).

Assuming that hit hits you are already in the danger zone when your first real hit + heal wave is coming in at you. Pre-hot + CD makes it nice and smooth but the actual damage intake is no different it just appears to be due to the switch making one hit essentially a shrodenger's (will hit one of two tanks and you don't know which, since rarely does the taunting tank taunt right after the boss melees :P).
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Thels » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:36 am

Shathus wrote:I suppose, thinking more, in doing 25 man Saurfang last night, my health did drop pretty low at times during his frenzy, especially with us getting too many marks going out and the healers getting distracted I think.


Actually, this might be the one fight where stacking stamina is NOT a good idea!

The more often Saurfang can connect, the more energy he gains, the more marks will be up, the more energy he gains, etc...

I use the dodge trinket from ToC10 HC, the defense/parry trinket from onyxia turnin quest, the dodge libram from triumph badges and some avoidance pieces left and right, as does my co-tank. We notice quite a reduction in marks.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Shathus » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:52 am

Thels wrote:
Shathus wrote:I suppose, thinking more, in doing 25 man Saurfang last night, my health did drop pretty low at times during his frenzy, especially with us getting too many marks going out and the healers getting distracted I think.


Actually, this might be the one fight where stacking stamina is NOT a good idea!

The more often Saurfang can connect, the more energy he gains, the more marks will be up, the more energy he gains, etc...

I use the dodge trinket from ToC10 HC, the defense/parry trinket from onyxia turnin quest, the dodge libram from triumph badges and some avoidance pieces left and right, as does my co-tank. We notice quite a reduction in marks.


I thought it was discovered him hitting you or not doesn't matter (as long as you don't have Rune of Blood) in that he doesn't gain energy off normal attacks, and Marks take damage per swing, regardless of whether it causes damage or not. Only avoiding Blood Beast attacks actually prevents BP generation?
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:55 am

Thels wrote:We notice quite a reduction in marks.

You shouldn't be, since the mechanic doesn't work that way. He doesn't gain BP from a successful melee on the tank unless the tank has the Rune of Blood debuff.

Mark of the FC deals damage to the player every time the boss performs a melee attack, whether the attack succeeds or not. So avoidance makes absolutely no difference in the BP gains you see.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Wrathy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:32 am

theckhd wrote:
Thels wrote:We notice quite a reduction in marks.

You shouldn't be, since the mechanic doesn't work that way. He doesn't gain BP from a successful melee on the tank unless the tank has the Rune of Blood debuff.

Mark of the FC deals damage to the player every time the boss performs a melee attack, whether the attack succeeds or not. So avoidance makes absolutely no difference in the BP gains you see.


We noticed a reduction after the first week too, and that is why I posted on the forums asking for some help with parses, but that I thought Thels philosophy was true. Now that we have proven it is not, I am more than confident to say that your healers probably got better at absorbing the blood boil debufs and your dps has gotten better, so he dies faster.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby theckhd » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:03 pm

Wrathy wrote:We noticed a reduction after the first week too, and that is why I posted on the forums asking for some help with parses, but that I thought Thels philosophy was true. Now that we have proven it is not, I am more than confident to say that your healers probably got better at absorbing the blood boil debufs and your dps has gotten better, so he dies faster.

Yeah, I think the issue is simply one of misplaced consequences. The previous week will never be an acceptable "control" group. You may stack more avoidance the next week, but your DPS players and healers have likely gotten better at the fight too. One person taking fewer Blood Beast melees or causing fewer Blood Nova multi-procs is enough to throw the results off.
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