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Stam Cap???

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Stam Cap???

Postby jlaw1017 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:49 am

I know I know. there is no such thing as a stam cap.

But what is enuff?

I know every tank has stam gemming imprinted in to there brain over the years. But isnt there a point where other stats could become useful? Is there really a point to having 60k HP unbuffed? 1 rare stam gem is worth 300 HP, With bosses hitting for 5k - 7k what is 300 really worth? You can search forum site after forum site. About gemming an chanting. There is always someone saying pure stam is the only way to go.

but in theory whouldnt it be helpful after "stam cap" to add other stats to help incomming damage reduction? Str for more block, Agi more armor? With the ICC 20% dodge debuff. would adding more block or armor be helpful?

I just wonder what is enuff HP, and when would it be more helpfull to add a few other stats.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Shathus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:09 am

Whenever you have enough that you don't have to worry about dying. I think is more or less the basic rule? From t here you can stack avoidance, or I think a lot of people will go for threat as well, especially with DPS getting new gear to push you. As for what that actual number is, as Digren would say "Remember, only you, the experienced tankadin, knows what's best for you" and just adjust as you feel comfortable doing.

I know I went into ICC with about 41k HP and I haven't really been worried about dying in any of the fights, our wipes have all been execution/learning issues really. This is why I haven't bothered buying the new EoF trinket yet, I'd rather upgrade other stats (along with my health) instead of just straight health, since I haven't felt I needed it.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby lythac » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:20 am

jlaw1017 wrote:I know I know. there is no such thing as a stam cap.

But what is enuff?

I know every tank has stam gemming imprinted in to there brain over the years. But isnt there a point where other stats could become useful? Is there really a point to having 60k HP unbuffed?


On Progression MT Gearing

jlaw1017 wrote:but in theory whouldnt it be helpful after "stam cap" to add other stats to help incomming damage reduction? Str for more block, Agi more armor? With the ICC 20% dodge debuff. would adding more block or armor be helpful?


Icecrown Radiance


"New" EH - incorporating different damage types into EH - this thread is also worth a read.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby jlaw1017 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:53 am

Lythac wrote:
jlaw1017 wrote:I know I know. there is no such thing as a stam cap.

But what is enuff?

I know every tank has stam gemming imprinted in to there brain over the years. But isnt there a point where other stats could become useful? Is there really a point to having 60k HP unbuffed?


On Progression MT Gearing

jlaw1017 wrote:but in theory whouldnt it be helpful after "stam cap" to add other stats to help incomming damage reduction? Str for more block, Agi more armor? With the ICC 20% dodge debuff. would adding more block or armor be helpful?


Icecrown Radiance


"New" EH - incorporating different damage types into EH - this thread is also worth a read.



wow, with all the trolling and math it is hard to keep up with those posts. Some seem a little outdated. which seems to be the common issue everywhere alot of theory before ICC released. now that it is out I wonder how things have changed.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Wrathy » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:31 am

jlaw1017 wrote:wow, with all the trolling and math it is hard to keep up with those posts. Some seem a little outdated. which seems to be the common issue everywhere alot of theory before ICC released. now that it is out I wonder how things have changed.


Even with the fact that we had those discussions months ago, prior to ICC and Chill of the Throne, the general principals of the discussion, and the outcome of them is still very much true. The math and discussions were based on a few assumptions that, from my perspective, have come true. Chill of the Throne has effected us in a way we expected, every boss so far most bosses have some sort of underlying unavoidable damage. Now while these are not usually the major contributors to spikes, they have a direct effect on the overall damage during the spike.

In my opinion, in ICC, there is not a time where stamina stacking becomes irrelevant. I have to disagree with Shathus, I walk into ICC with 46.5k HP unbuffed and still dont feel completely comfortable. Sure, I survive, and we kill the bosses, but I'm not at the comfort level yet where I am sitting above 70% HP all the time (as is the case in ToTGC). What it comes down to is that we haven't really seen too much progression oriented fights yet. The first for are purely facerolling bosses, Rotface and Festergut hit quite hard, but they are more about coordination, as is putricide. We will not see the most benefit of our philosophies until hard modes when the bosses hit harder and there are extra elements added to the fights.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby bldavis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:57 am

i was starting to wonder if there was a stam cap or some such thing.

i am normally a stam stacker, but when im always 40k+ in heroics, im starting to wonder if i should start using some more agil/stam gems to up my avoidence.

i havent noticed any problems, but now that i am starting to raid tank, im worried.am i just a soak tank?
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Shathus » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:00 am

Maybe I should clarify that my experiences are thus far limited to the first wing of ICC. We haven't attempted Festergut yet, and I was just kiting on Rotface. This is all on 10 man as well.

I suppose, thinking more, in doing 25 man Saurfang last night, my health did drop pretty low at times during his frenzy, especially with us getting too many marks going out and the healers getting distracted I think.

We're going back to do Festergut 10 tonight so that should give me a good idea of how my health is tanking during the 3 stack inhale I would think.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Gamingdevil » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:19 am

Wrathy wrote:The first for are purely facerolling bosses, Rotface and Festergut hit quite hard, but they are more about coordination, as is putricide. We will not see the most benefit of our philosophies until hard modes when the bosses hit harder and there are extra elements added to the fights.


Festergut 25 is quite dangerous when he gets to 3 stacks. My cotank, with only slightly worse gear than me, got roflstomped the first attempt.

Avoidance will always be "a chance to", especially with Icecrown Radiance, when we can't reach the block cap anymore. I don't really see a reason to stack avoidance. I do still gem for socket bonuses when they are quite nice (9 stamina for only 1 non-blue)
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby kanst » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:47 am

The way I look at it, stam allows you to take more consecutive hits...which considering raidance has a higher chance of happening. With all the debuffs, and movement and annoying crap in these fights, the ability to absorb 2-3 straight hits is huge. Togc didnt have much that forced healers to run around or do anything other then heal...so far ICC has a bunch of things like that, and when you throw in that hard mode will probably make all the bosses hit harder, there is no such thing as too much health
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby bldavis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:08 am

So...... stick with my duel stam trinkets for ICC?
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Meyrinn » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:40 am

I sit at just over 57K raid buffed and Festergut25 and Prof Putricide25 hit hard enough that I'm actually worried about dieing even if my healers aren't falling asleep. They hit fairly hard in 10 man but not enough to scare me. I don't see how a 10 man geared tank could survive the damage being output though.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Antique » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:18 pm

my warrior cotank was literally oneshotted by fenstergut25 in our first attempt when he taunted of me at 3 stacks (i think he has like 58k raidbuffed) so yeah im sticking with stamina (and armor)
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Awyndel » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:55 pm

No I don't think any level of stamina we can achievement with current gear will ever be too much.

Of course more armor is always usefull, and we DO pick that up if it's at the expense of avoidance, just not if it's at the expensive of stamina ( wich it rarely is ) .

Block is kind of bad now that we aren't block capped anymore.

Avoidance is well, a good stat, but never at the expensive of stamina or armor, wich is why when given a choice, we chose stamina.
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby kysu » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:39 pm

Antique wrote:my warrior cotank was literally oneshotted by fenstergut25 in our first attempt when he taunted of me at 3 stacks (i think he has like 58k raidbuffed) so yeah im sticking with stamina (and armor)


Speaking of that anyone else run with warrior tanks that seem to get rolfstomped alot?
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Re: Stam Cap???

Postby Flex » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:43 pm

Meyrinn wrote:I sit at just over 57K raid buffed and Festergut25 and Prof Putricide25 hit hard enough that I'm actually worried about dieing even if my healers aren't falling asleep. They hit fairly hard in 10 man but not enough to scare me. I don't see how a 10 man geared tank could survive the damage being output though.


My warrior co-tank and I both sit at 50Kish buffed in 10 mans and we explode on Festergut with two healers.
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