Agility > Stamina?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Agility > Stamina?

Postby Tats » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:53 am

you can always pick up tankpoints too! ;)
User avatar
Tats
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:59 am

Re: Agility > Stamina?

Postby Aedh » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:09 am

theckhd wrote:You should be gemming straight spirit and mp5. You know, in case Divine Plea drops off. Or something.

I have a new sig line.

And now I know what to do with my excess EoT.
Gonna make a tank set gemmed with spirit. :mrgreen:
Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Whatever happened to Quebec seceding? If they do that, can we invade? America could really use the revenue from exporting syrup and hockey players.
Aedh
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:57 am
Location: Tacoma, WA

Re: Agility > Stamina?

Postby hoho » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:15 am

theckhd wrote:I use Rawr at home for Ret and Balance. It's great for DPS.
Have you tried simulationcraft? It doesn't (yet) do nifty things like tell what exact pieces make up for best setup but will nicely tell you how much some stats are worth for you and how well you scale with them. At least I know for shadowpriests Rawr is garbage and I wouldn't be surprised if it would be for pretty much anything out there :P

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/

Simulationcraft got a nice GUI interface to itself so now anyone should be able to use it with ease. I think there should be tanking simulation coming up soonish aswell so survivability could also be simulated to some extent.
Leap of Faith:
Good news, everyone! We can now heal stupidity!
User avatar
hoho
 
Posts: 2445
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:02 pm
Location: Estonia

Re: Agility > Stamina?

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:43 am

hoho wrote:Have you tried simulationcraft? It doesn't (yet) do nifty things like tell what exact pieces make up for best setup but will nicely tell you how much some stats are worth for you and how well you scale with them. At least I know for shadowpriests Rawr is garbage and I wouldn't be surprised if it would be for pretty much anything out there :P

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/

Simulationcraft got a nice GUI interface to itself so now anyone should be able to use it with ease. I think there should be tanking simulation coming up soonish aswell so survivability could also be simulated to some extent.

I haven't, because most of the time I just let Rawr figure out upgrades for me. The ret and moonkin modules are pretty well maintained, and those are the two that I use primarily.

However, I've been tempted to check out simulationcraft for my warlock alt, since the Rawr affliction package is garbage right now. They're working on it, but it's awfully slow in updating.

<edit> Holy crap is simcraft cool. That's a pretty impressive GUI they slapped on to it. Last time I looked, it was all command-line based.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7984
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Agility > Stamina?

Postby Neroth » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Wow... I was surprised to read how many people are saying RAWR is bad. I'm interested to hear how y'all are using it. I've been almost solely using RAWR to help make my equipment choices for all of Northrend and my gear has ended up looking pretty close to the BIS lists I see posted here. I think the difference may be that some try to use the optimize function and have RAWR tell you how to gear. I use RAWR to show me the relative strengths of gear and then make my own gear choices. I'm gonna go through how I use RAWR, and I'm interested to see how everyone else was using it.


The first step of course is to DL your character from the Armory and make sure that everything matches your in game character. I then go into the options tab, click on RANKING, and make sure that RAWR is set for "Mitigation Scale". I then move the THREAT SCALE slide all the way to zero.

Now, when I look at the gear list for each slot I see each item broken down into its "survival" and "mitigation" components, and the gear is listed by its overall value of both combined. My understanding of the terms that RAWR uses is that Survival=EH=Stam/Armor. Mitigation seems to be the avoidance component of the gear. I'm pretty sure this doesn't jive with the traditional terms used in the tanking community, so I wanted to clarify.

While there has been some dissagreement on the forums as to whether Stam or armor present better EH options, I think I'm right that most everyone agrees that EH is the way to go for progression tanking.

With RAWR set up in this manner you can easily see what gear you are currently wearing, and how it ranks compared to the possible upgrades that are out there. I almost always go with the item that is an upgrade in the Survival column, but I leave the list sorted by overall so that I can see what the other overall stats on the gear are. If you look at RAWR this way... its a quick glance to see that Pillars of Might, Cat chest, and Kraken gloves are obviously the best EH choices of the gear out there. You can also see the relative value of the other gear for trying to decide what Tier pieces to take etc.

If I were trying to make a pure health set I would simply sort the list by Survival and then just look at the stats on the highest items to decide how high the Stam component of the EH is.

I would never just pop in gear, hit the optimize button, and do what RAWR tells me to do... but it gives me all the info at a glance that I need to make relevant decisions based on personal knowledge of how I want to gear my character.



GEMMING USING RAWR

I'm actually wondering how the OP came to the conclusion that RAWR values Agility over stam. It may just be a simple matter of how and where in RAWR you are looking at the data.

To get a list of how RAWR rates gems overall you just click on the "Slot" tab in the comparisons window and the window down to Slot/Gems/All Normal

For overall effectiveness for any color gem (non-jc)the top 5 it shows me are

1. 30 Stam
2. 10 Agility 15 stam
3. 10 Dodge 15 Stam
4. 10 Defense 15 Stam
5. 10 Parry 15 Stam

The Survival(EH) component of items 3,4,5 are all shown the same. If you are trying to match a socket then you could also choose for it to only list gems that match that individual socket color.

I think the gemming confusion for RAWR comes when you look at the different gemming options for each piece of gear that are listed on the comparison screen. It usually shows one to three options, but it often doesn't show the gemming I'm interested in. If I get a new piece of gear and want to decide on gemming I do the following:

1. Click on the dot beside the item in the comparison window to tell RAWR that the item is available. This will also put a dot beside all the gemming configurations that RAWR has listed.

2. If the gemming configuration that you want is listed, then simply look at the comparison.. make your decision and right click on the item to equip it. You will now see the equipped item highlighted on the comparison window and you can see where RAWR says it ranks.

3. If the gemming isn't available then just choose one of the available configurations and equip it. Once equipped, right click on the item in the character screen and click on Equip Custom Gemming. Once you choose your preferred gems and hit ok... that gemming configuration will be displayed on the character screen and you can see how RAWR says it compares to the other gemming configurations.

I pretty much make my own gem decisions, but its nice to see at a glance what I gave up in order to get the stats I wanted.

RAWR Pro's

1. Concise at a glance picture of your current gear piece and how it rates to other pieces that are available.
2. Shows at a glance where possible upgrades can come from.
3. Allows you to see the relative value of EH and Avoidance on a piece of gear at a glance.
4. Provides pretty good Gem/Enchant info and lets you swap them out to see what happens.

Cons

1. Needs to be up to date.
2. Updating requires completly new download of program.
3. Not a Bible.... you can't trust it to make your decisions for you.
4. I don't trust how it handles trinkets at all. I glance at trinkets... but usually just make my mind up myself on what to use.
5. Does not seperate EH out into Health and Armor components.



RAWR is a pretty powerful reference tool that lets you make your own decisions. However, I agree with others that have posted that you can't trust it to make gearing decisions for you. I hope this was helpful to those that do use RAWR and I'm interested to hear from some of the experts here on the merits of its use. I am always open to a better way to do things if it exists.
Image
Neroth
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:24 pm

Previous

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest

Who is online

In total there are 3 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest