How much def is too much

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How much def is too much

Postby DocJewl » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:48 am

I realize that 540 is no longer the defense cap, but the defense minimum. So at what point do I get rid of all Deense enchants/gems/gear and go for other stats? Mainly stam.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Iselian » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:36 am

For TotGC's unavoidable damage, you'll probably want to balance yourself as close to the 540 (536 I believe with resil/stam shoulder enchant) defense mark as you can, while maximizing health elsewhere. Through Ulduar, however, I always found it nice to sit at about 545 to 550 defense, so you had a little leeway room in case you snagged an upgrade with less defense.

I wouldn't gem/enchant above 550 The diminishing returns kill the avoidance it gives too much to justify using defense over an agility gem.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Salamandra » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:13 pm

There's certainly never such thing as too much defense (I think I'm at 561 purely from gear, since my enchants/gems give 0), but you shouldn't gem it (unless you use def/stam to match good socket bonuses) unless you need it to be uncritable, and it's probably better to enchant chest/shield/shoulders with the EH options (assuming you're concerned with encounters such as TotC ones which have mechanics which make avoidance awful) as long as you again don't need the defense to be uncritable.

Trying to avoid gear with defense on, however, doesn't make sense. If not needed for uncritability treat defense on gear as roughly the same as dodge/parry.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Khayne » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:42 am

Iselian wrote:I wouldn't gem/enchant above 550 The diminishing returns kill the avoidance it gives too much to justify using defense over an agility gem.


Good thing stam+def and stam+agi are different colors though :wink: .

Anyway, Salamandras post sums it up.
If you need to gem it for getting to 540, do it.
If you dont, treat it same as parry and dodge ratings.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Wrathy » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:25 am

Salamandra wrote:There's certainly never such thing as too much defense

I will have to agree with this statement. There is never a time at which you should say, I am gonna drop some defense just because. Sure you can gem around it, e.g. only gem stamina, and you can have the opportunity to use certain pieces that dont have defense on them. However, more defense is always better than less. Increasing your avoidance is never a bad thing, as long as you are not neglecting something else as a result.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Shemirage » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:06 am

But, what happens when you reach blk cap against raid bosses with only holy shield up?
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:11 am

Shemirage wrote:But, what happens when you reach blk cap against raid bosses with only holy shield up?

Drop block.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Arkesh » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:18 am

Even if you do reach the Block Cap against raid bosses, that just means that you're going to block each incoming attack, further def will push dodge, parry and miss further up the table and block will get pushed off - at least that's my understanding of it.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Pythoansis » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:04 pm

So after searching a lot... what is the cap for defense? 540 is explained on wowwiki. Is 545 just a over gear stat?
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Meloree » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:08 pm

There is no such thing as too much defence.

More defence always provides returns by increasing avoidance. Avoidance is good.

With your optional item budget (gems and enchants), you may consider trading defence for other stats, like stamina (I personally do, and recommend stacking stamina for progression), but once you've done all that, it's a good thing to have lots of defence leftover.

540 defence skill is not a cap, it is a minimum. Due to resilience, that's slightly fungible, but the simplified version is "always be over 540 defence, nothing is more important than uncrittability". After that, it's doesn't hurt you to be above the minimum.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby halabar » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:16 pm

Also remember that come IC, the "radience" will make that "wasted" block useful, since it won't be pushed off the table.

Once you hit 540, then you start adjusting your gemming, and your only gems should be blue for stam, agi/stam in red slots, and def/stam in yellow slots. If the socket bonuses suck, then go for pure stam in the red and yellow sockets. But you will need a few still for your meta. Then when you get gear upgrades, you can consider stam enchants, but, they often still aren't the best choices.

Remember, you are one gear upgrade away from a perfectly balanced 540/102.4% becoming a 536/99%, so having some extra defense in there isn't a bad thing.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Maihes » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:35 pm

My gemming priority.

Blue = Solid
Red (with good bonus) = Shifting (Agi / Stam)
Yellow (with good bonus) = Vivid (Hit / Stam)

I do not believe I actually have any Yellow's worth gemming, and most of my Shiftings I have gave up only like 6 Stam for the 10 Agi.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Thels » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:52 am

I'm personally going for 9 and 12 stamina bonuses only (gaining 10 agi or def for 3 or 6 stamina).

I'm contemplating switching from sta/def to sta/hit, though, since my hit is pretty low, and I got enough defense to remain crit immune (with EH shoulder/back/chest/shield enchants). It only affects a single gem, though.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby Nikachelle » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:53 am

Thels wrote:I'm contemplating switching from sta/def to sta/hit, though, since my hit is pretty low, and I got enough defense to remain crit immune (with EH shoulder/back/chest/shield enchants). It only affects a single gem, though.


After some seriously failed taunts and shield throws... I have to say I'm also now contemplating hit/stamina gems.
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Re: How much def is too much

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:11 am

Meloree wrote:There is no such thing as too much defence.


Defense is always good, but it isn't always optimal.

Above 540 defense something else is almost always better (except for niche unhittable sets).
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