raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

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raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby daemonym » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:13 pm

yes i know without a wws of sorts you can't do much for me. this isn't a "what am i doing wrong post." it's a point me in the right gear direction post.

TL;DR: i need more threat without losing too much EH/avoidance.

so after being consumed by months of work i missed nearly all of tier 8 content, i'm starting on a fresh server and looking to start raiding again. so i did the new onyxia (damn that felt good as a pally) and the new voa boss (6 different strats in 3 resets) and that was all fun. but then i got into a few raids with some hunters and locks in 245 gear...and things got uncomfortable. my gear isn't nearly up to par with theirs, mostly 219 gear with the emblem gear. and they seemed to have no issue doing more tps than i was (i couldn't out threat a hunter for the life of me even).

so i know the gear that's available, just not sure how to juggle my stats around and still remain very durable (had an ele shammy keep me up for 20% of onyxia 25m alone). i'll be having t9 shoulders in a day or 2, so i'll have that set bonus soon. also using armsman on my glvoes with accuracy on my broken promise.

and i realize that i can just say 'slow your dps or pull and die' but to date, i have always gotten my raid spot due to my superior threat, so it's more important to me than most i suppose.

my gear set (shows me with 600 armor less than i do on live oddly):
http://www.chardev.org/?template=247480
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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby Meloree » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:34 pm

There won't be a lot you can do while badly outgeared, to outthreat 245/258 dps while remaining appropriately durable. If you have any high threat pieces of gear (lots of str or hit, etc) that aren't in your mainset, you can gem/enchant for threat, and swap them in piecewise on fights where your survival isn't as much of an issue. But on fights where your survival is an issue, you have no choice but to go as durable as you can.

Warlocks will always be the biggest threats. Salv them. Hunters can feign death, and they should be misdirecting you at every opportunity if threat is an issue. Mages actually take their threat reduction talents, and with MI/Invis they're less problematic. Also, the rogues should be using tricks on you, rather than each other, when threat is a problem. But you can't compromise survival, and that's already tricky when you're undergeared.

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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby Mindrak » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:11 pm

I swap to conquest libram when I'm in a threat sensitive situation.

Alternatively you can change your hit rating to defense rating on gems, then defense rating to block value on shield. The enchant is 81 block value now, and is a solid choice as long as you don't get 2 shot :)
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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby DisRuptive1 » Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:41 am

I'd probably suggest swapping in the Triumph badge libram that gives strength, try for tier 9 2-piece bonus and tier 8 2-piece bonus (if you can) and get melee hit-capped. From there, just suck it up and try to improve your gear. If you get lucky, you might want to also try for a dps weapon instead of a tanking one as there's nothing in Tier 9 outside of the heroics that is really better than what you can get in Tier 8 content. I think Theckhd showed that the Onyxia weapons are pretty crap for threat.
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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby Zothor » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:49 am

DisRuptive1 wrote:I'd probably suggest swapping in the Triumph badge libram that gives strength, try for tier 9 2-piece bonus and tier 8 2-piece bonus (if you can) and get melee hit-capped. From there, just suck it up and try to improve your gear. If you get lucky, you might want to also try for a dps weapon instead of a tanking one as there's nothing in Tier 9 outside of the heroics that is really better than what you can get in Tier 8 content. I think Theckhd showed that the Onyxia weapons are pretty crap for threat.


I definitely agree with using the 200 strength libram - I outgear most of my guild and I still use it, just because I love the additional buffer it gives me. I'm sorry, but I'm entirely over avoidance in this tier of content. All the seriously dangerous situations in TOC involve unavoidable damage... it was a retarded way to address the "tanks have too much avoidance" issue, but it is what it is.

My primary advice, consequently, is to accept that and sacrifice your avoidance. Never sacrifice EH - but good, properly geared healers, if you keep your EH up can keep you alive while you're gearing up even if you're a bit short on avoidance.

The Onyxia weapon is crap for threat relative to another 232 weapon because it lacks strength; however, if you haven't gotten Titanguard (Flame 25), Shiver (Hodir 10 hard mode), or Crusader's Glory (slash whatever it's called on horde, Anubarak 10) to drop, that Onyxia sword is still a solid option.

My biggest single problem with your gearset is that you wasted a ton of valuable badges on 232 level loot just because it's tier. I am hoping, praying, that you got really lucky and got 2 of those pieces from VOA, and didn't waste hundreds of badges on low level gear. The Tier gear, especially from a threat perspective, is NOT worth it relative to the offset pieces you can get from badges alone because of the lower ilvl. It costs you strength, your primary threat stat. While the twopiece is a nice threat boost, you really should have used your badges to acquire the offset Helm and Shoulders from badges, and should do so in the future if you can't get your hands on trophies. For a tank, ilvl a huge, huge consideration in threat gear, because you rarely get to pick it out.

Finally, I am assuming you are primarily raiding TOC, so 53/18 is the correct threat spec. However... as much as we all love moving fast (and I do think your signature is hilarious), while you're threatcapped, I would seriously consider going 3v/3c instead of 1v/3c and dropping pusuit of justice. You can switch back when the gear catches up if you'd like, but there really isn't a lot of critical running around in TOC, even when doing add pickups.

edit: not finally. You're worried about threat issues.... and yet using Glyph of Hand of Salvation? If your'e threatcapping, you can probably never use that glyph. Again, switch it to glyph of Judgement until your threat and gear catches up, then make the decision about what glyph you want to keep.

TL;DR: First, 200 str badge libram. 2nd, 245 ilvl offset > 232 tier, 3rd, spec as much conviction as you can, 4th, glyph for threat, not a salv cooldown you probably can't even afford.
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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby Corpsicle » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:19 pm

Zothor wrote:My biggest single problem with your gearset is that you wasted a ton of valuable badges on 232 level loot just because it's tier. I am hoping, praying, that you got really lucky and got 2 of those pieces from VOA, and didn't waste hundreds of badges on low level gear. The Tier gear, especially from a threat perspective, is NOT worth it relative to the offset pieces you can get from badges alone because of the lower ilvl. It costs you strength, your primary threat stat. While the twopiece is a nice threat boost, you really should have used your badges to acquire the offset Helm and Shoulders from badges, and should do so in the future if you can't get your hands on trophies. For a tank, ilvl a huge, huge consideration in threat gear, because you rarely get to pick it out.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Triumph badges are pretty easy to get and depending on the loot system he has in his raids, he may not be able to get his hands on a Trophy any time soon. I think it is a sound decision to upgrade to the 232 tier set if you are in this sort of situation. For myself, there is no chance of me getting a trophy from the 25s, and our ten man doesn't spend the time (or consistent raid make up) on heroic 10 man to get the trophies from there either. Since there isn't anything else worthy picking up at this point from the triumph emblems, other than offset gear, I went with the set pieces.

Also, if he is moving from Tier 7 content straight into tier 9 content, the 232 set pieces are a great way to not get completely splatted and are a large upgrade. He can always upgrade to the 245 versions, if he ever gets a trophy.
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Re: raiding again, need threat suggestion (i'm out geared)

Postby Zothor » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:00 pm

Corpsicle wrote:
Zothor wrote:My biggest single problem with your gearset is that you wasted a ton of valuable badges on 232 level loot just because it's tier. I am hoping, praying, that you got really lucky and got 2 of those pieces from VOA, and didn't waste hundreds of badges on low level gear. The Tier gear, especially from a threat perspective, is NOT worth it relative to the offset pieces you can get from badges alone because of the lower ilvl. It costs you strength, your primary threat stat. While the twopiece is a nice threat boost, you really should have used your badges to acquire the offset Helm and Shoulders from badges, and should do so in the future if you can't get your hands on trophies. For a tank, ilvl a huge, huge consideration in threat gear, because you rarely get to pick it out.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Triumph badges are pretty easy to get and depending on the loot system he has in his raids, he may not be able to get his hands on a Trophy any time soon. I think it is a sound decision to upgrade to the 232 tier set if you are in this sort of situation. For myself, there is no chance of me getting a trophy from the 25s, and our ten man doesn't spend the time (or consistent raid make up) on heroic 10 man to get the trophies from there either. Since there isn't anything else worthy picking up at this point from the triumph emblems, other than offset gear, I went with the set pieces.

Also, if he is moving from Tier 7 content straight into tier 9 content, the 232 set pieces are a great way to not get completely splatted and are a large upgrade. He can always upgrade to the 245 versions, if he ever gets a trophy.


You missed my point. I'm not requireing that he get 245 Tier - but the offset pieces (The shoulders and Helm) are both ilvl 245 from badges only.

That's what you should be buying with badges
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