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Sigh, i need threat issue help!

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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:01 pm

Hurlrage wrote:
badgermonkey wrote: Why wouldn't you have RF on from the start? :?


Because if you wait for your 5 seals stack, you get the extra holy damage per strike, wich are +20% with RF.
Thus you maximize your threat output.

... What?
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby badgermonkey » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:42 pm

Hurlrage wrote:
badgermonkey wrote: Why wouldn't you have RF on from the start? :?


Because if you wait for your 5 seals stack, you get the extra holy damage per strike, wich are +20% with RF.
Thus you maximize your threat output.



I think you're playing a different game?
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby d503 » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:56 pm

He's playing a game where Avenging Wrath is called Righteous Fury...think about it :P
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Halnoth » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:57 pm

Hurlrage wrote:
badgermonkey wrote: Why wouldn't you have RF on from the start? :?


Because if you wait for your 5 seals stack, you get the extra holy damage per strike, wich are +20% with RF.
Thus you maximize your threat output.


haha no. RF works at all times, so you are essentially wasting all of that holy threat prior to you putting it up.

All in all this is a rediculous statement.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Halnoth » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:58 pm

d503 wrote:He's playing a game where Avenging Wrath is called Righteous Fury...think about it :P


oh right haha that makes sense
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Koatanga » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:06 pm

My hit is very low. Upgrades from ToC have left me with lots of expertise and very little hit. So I run the taunt glyph to make up for that.

But even before I got those upgrades (referred to as the "good old days when I was hit capped") and swapped glyphs, I was getting DPS riding my threat on certain fights. Hodir is obviously one of those, and doing it hard mode means everytone is going nuts on DPS. I watch my threat meter very carefully, and when the DPS is about to pull, I instruct them to keep going and to use their threat drop immediately after I taunt the boss back off of them, but not before.

Matching their threat via the taunt puts me that far ahead of the next-highest DPS.

You might consider that tactic for tauntable bosses - learn to manage their threat to your advantage.

On other fights the DPS really needs to lrn2play. I've had guardians pulled off me as I run them in to Sara, which is just idiotic. People do need to use their heads on occasion.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby defeated » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:48 am

Well, i just had more issues, and its pretty disheartening, if anyone knows wtf i am talking about here or has any info please let me know, but i just tanked Anub'arak H ToC 10 with my guild, i was the OT, and our MT was a warrior, so i taunt the adds, keep them in the frost patches etc etc, i followed many of the videos i've seen on youtube etc for the fight, but this resto shaman in my guild constantly pulling threat off of me, especially in the 3rd phase where everyone takes 20% damage with the swarm he does, i'm not understanding how, i chain taunted off this shaman, yet his healing aggro was higher than my tank aggro... Anyone know if there is any bugs in this or if i am doing something wrong?

Our setup was to have anub on an ice patch, and me with the adds in the middle of him, now since i cannot move quick in the ice at all, it took a second to start up my rotation, but for some reason i could just not keep threat at all.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:58 am

defeated wrote:Well, i just had more issues, and its pretty disheartening, if anyone knows wtf i am talking about here or has any info please let me know, but i just tanked Anub'arak H ToC 10 with my guild, i was the OT, and our MT was a warrior, so i taunt the adds, keep them in the frost patches etc etc, i followed many of the videos i've seen on youtube etc for the fight, but this resto shaman in my guild constantly pulling threat off of me, especially in the 3rd phase where everyone takes 20% damage with the swarm he does, i'm not understanding how, i chain taunted off this shaman, yet his healing aggro was higher than my tank aggro... Anyone know if there is any bugs in this or if i am doing something wrong?

Our setup was to have anub on an ice patch, and me with the adds in the middle of him, now since i cannot move quick in the ice at all, it took a second to start up my rotation, but for some reason i could just not keep threat at all.

You need to turn on your combatlog ( /combatlog) and then post it to wowwebstats or worldoflogs or something so we can see what the heck is going on. There is absolutely no way that a resto shaman should be pulling aggro like that.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Hurlrage » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:07 am

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:
Hurlrage wrote:
badgermonkey wrote: Why wouldn't you have RF on from the start? :?


Because if you wait for your 5 seals stack, you get the extra holy damage per strike, wich are +20% with RF.
Thus you maximize your threat output.

... What?


Stupid me....
I don't play a different game, just one where I confused translated abilities names :oops:
replace RF with AW.....

On a side note on Hodir HM, DPS run all out while getting the adds'buffs...
Managing the locks threat if he gets a chain of good buffs with some serial crits is a nightmare. However, all tanks in my guild are in the same boat on this boss.


Now as for defeated, I would think you're doing something wrong ..
Please get back to fundamental mantra :
If the tank dies, it's the healer's fault.
If the healer dies, it's the tank's fault.
If the DPS dies then watch your damn aggro.


I just can't understand how a heal can pull aggro from an add you're currently tanking. :shock:
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby defeated » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:32 am

No idea. When i do this fight again if i am having issues i will figure out how to setup the wws thing so you can take a look at my combat log, i had RF turned on, everything was going well for some parts, but others it was just like the shaman was stealing my aggro or something, it made no sense and i was extremely frustrated with it.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:02 am

Majiben covered most of the comments I wanted to make. I can only stress that you need to take a combat log parse and upload it to WWS or WoL so we can scrutinize it. Your gear, spec, and glyphs seem fine as far as threat goes. At that gear level you should be able to easily pull 7k TPS, and probably more. That means that the issue isn't something that the Armory can tell us about, it has to be something in your playstyle that's causing it.

The fact that a Resto shaman is pulling aggro off of you on any fight is an indication that something's horribly wrong in that department. Even auto-attacking the mobs with a stray Consecration or HotR here or there should keep aggro over a healer.

As for the people mentioning Hodir HM: The NPC-provided buffs are the key to that fight, as they can roughly double or in some cases triple a caster's dps. That also means that it will double/triple their threat output. Even the best-geared tank won't be able to keep up with them without a large amount of help. The best way to handle this is to make sure that the person with the storm power buff spreads it to the tank first, and then to other DPS. I never have aggro problems on Hodir when Storm Power is properly passed to me early in the fight.

As a paladin tank you get to take advantage of the Singed debuff as well, which gives you a slight edge over other tanks.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Meyrinn » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:07 am

Whats your normal TPS range? and what is the DPS of those that are outthreating you? If you don't have your TPS column on in Omen, then turn in on and watch your TPS numbers. Its pretty much impossible for a healer to pull aggro from you unless you are doing something wrong. Heals generate half a point of aggro per hp healed and they would need to be putting out like 20,000 HP/s in heals. Are you sure that it wasn't the add casting shadowstep? Also, Fire mages can be a nightmare because they can burst up in threat very fast. The DPS model is not very good for managing threat. They have a talent called Hot Streak which gives them an instant cast Pyroblast if they crit twice in a row, which just adds burst on top of burst. I've seen Fire Mages go from 50% of my threat to well over in a matter of seconds. This is only during the beginning 15 seconds of a fight, but its quite annoying.

Also, certain fights it seems threat is an issue because of boss mechanics. Icehowl is one where your threat is lower than usual. He stuns you, knocks you back, freezes you(sometimes) and when he does that crash thing sometimes you are really far from the boss and your 5-stack falls off. That stupid iceblock in Anub'arak is hell on keeping your rotation straight. All the close quarters knockbacks and knockdowns are just killer on your threat when the ranged can just stand there and burn.

Either way, I haven't noticed much threat issues since 3.2. My threat is higher than it used to be with about the same gear. But, I am also concerned with the lack of hit on our gear.
Last edited by Meyrinn on Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Corpsicle » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:59 am

defeated wrote:No idea. When i do this fight again if i am having issues i will figure out how to setup the wws thing so you can take a look at my combat log, i had RF turned on, everything was going well for some parts, but others it was just like the shaman was stealing my aggro or something, it made no sense and i was extremely frustrated with it.



Defeated, I am still convinced there is a wonky threat bug that I just can't catch in action. What you are describing is similar to what's happpened to me and some friends of mine, sporadically and very frustratingly in various instances/raids. If you have this problem repeat, it might be worth clicking off RF and rebuffing it mid fight, just to see if that helps.

To take a combat log, type /combatlog and you will start logging. Every time you zone out or die I think it stops parsing, so you want to be sure to /combatlog each try (and make sure it says combat logging on). wowmeteronline.com is fairly straightforward and free, and I've never had issues with it. I don't use worldoflogs.com so I can't give you any advice on that.

I haven't done Anub on 10 man hard mode yet, but I don't remember the 10 man normal mode having threat wipes. There is the chance that you are running into mechanics of the encounter - but with out a combat log parse it is hard to tell from description.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby d503 » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:26 am

Corpsicle wrote:Every time you zone out or die I think it stops parsing, so you want to be sure to /combatlog each try (and make sure it says combat logging on).


Untrue. You may have a mod that's turning it off when you die or leave an instance.

I remember having to cut a bunch of Shattrath BS out of my logs when we would finish up BT back in 2.0...:)
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Meyrinn » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:29 am

Corpsicle wrote:I haven't done Anub on 10 man hard mode yet, but I don't remember the 10 man normal mode having threat wipes. There is the chance that you are running into mechanics of the encounter - but with out a combat log parse it is hard to tell from description.


I don't believe there are any aggro drops. The adds come back naturally after Shadowsteps. I doubt healers can pull aggro because they can't put out that much healing to do so. The only case might be a Holy Paladin with RF up spamming HL on someone and having that heal plus the bacon heal both heal for full value.
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