Sigh, i need threat issue help!

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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Corpsicle » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:45 am

d503 wrote:
Corpsicle wrote:Every time you zone out or die I think it stops parsing, so you want to be sure to /combatlog each try (and make sure it says combat logging on).


Untrue. You may have a mod that's turning it off when you die or leave an instance.

I remember having to cut a bunch of Shattrath BS out of my logs when we would finish up BT back in 2.0...:)



Good to know thanks! I use a mod called autocl which will keep my combat logging on in instances I tell it to and couldn't remember whether or not zoning/dying would turn combat logging on/off since I haven't done it manually in a long time. I do know disconnecting does and that made me think the others could as well. I haven't found any links to autocl and had to have a friend email me my copy, but if you can find it the mod is quite handy if you are forgettful about such things (and I definitely am).
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby bentglasstube » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:02 pm

Corpsicle wrote:
d503 wrote:
Corpsicle wrote:Every time you zone out or die I think it stops parsing, so you want to be sure to /combatlog each try (and make sure it says combat logging on).


Untrue. You may have a mod that's turning it off when you die or leave an instance.

I remember having to cut a bunch of Shattrath BS out of my logs when we would finish up BT back in 2.0...:)



Good to know thanks! I use a mod called autocl which will keep my combat logging on in instances I tell it to and couldn't remember whether or not zoning/dying would turn combat logging on/off since I haven't done it manually in a long time. I do know disconnecting does and that made me think the others could as well. I haven't found any links to autocl and had to have a friend email me my copy, but if you can find it the mod is quite handy if you are forgettful about such things (and I definitely am).


I've always used LoggerHead to this end.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Cerelias » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:09 pm

Meyrinn wrote:Whats your normal TPS range? and what is the DPS of those that are outthreating you? If you don't have your TPS column on in Omen, then turn in on and watch your TPS numbers. Its pretty much impossible for a healer to pull aggro from you unless you are doing something wrong. Heals generate half a point of aggro per hp healed and they would need to be putting out like 20,000 HP/s in heals.
That's not necessarily true. You don't need to hit 20k at all to pull aggro early, which is what this sounds like. If the adds aren't making it to the tank then it's almost trivial to pull off with heals, especially during Anub p3 where a shaman would be spamming CH. CH can sustain a LOT of hps in situations where the raid is constantly taking damage, as long as you're mashing the button.

If he's not, I'd have the shaman stand behind you somewhere so that they are at least coming to you and can be hit by your threat moves. Don't bother taunting them until they're semi-close too. Make sure the shaman knows that leeching swarm does damage based on CURRENT health rather than max; it's ok if the raid takes a couple ticks when everyone's high on health. Actually, it's somewhat desirable so it heals less. Your shaman might be trying to top meters rather than use his brain; he probably just needs to stop for a second when adds spawn so you can establish aggro.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby defeated » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:14 pm

Yeah, his HPS was actually over 20,000. Our shaman is a ridiculous. I think that was the problem, the setup we used he was not always near me, when i saw us wipe my body was away from everyone else's, another thing i saw from some of the videos of kills were that the ice patch was placed not exactly on the boss, which screws with me being able to see every add even with my camera max range, so i use grid and tab target to pick up adds with aoe taunt or hand of reck. Now i think that may be the issue is that the adds were getting slowed by the ice, and the ice patch takes about 3 seconds or more to get from one tip to the other. The shaman is on one side, and i am at the other side, so i taunt when i see the adds spawn but i am guessing the adds then hit taunt DR by the time they aggro to the shaman again, and since i am too far away to hit them with any abilities except avengers shield, i cannot break their aggro from the shaman.

The sad thing is that as i even used avengers shield to try to grab some from him, it still didn't work.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Meyrinn » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:27 pm

defeated wrote:Yeah, his HPS was actually over 20,000. Our shaman is a ridiculous. I think that was the problem, the setup we used he was not always near me, when i saw us wipe my body was away from everyone else's, another thing i saw from some of the videos of kills were that the ice patch was placed not exactly on the boss, which screws with me being able to see every add even with my camera max range, so i use grid and tab target to pick up adds with aoe taunt or hand of reck. Now i think that may be the issue is that the adds were getting slowed by the ice, and the ice patch takes about 3 seconds or more to get from one tip to the other. The shaman is on one side, and i am at the other side, so i taunt when i see the adds spawn but i am guessing the adds then hit taunt DR by the time they aggro to the shaman again, and since i am too far away to hit them with any abilities except avengers shield, i cannot break their aggro from the shaman.

The sad thing is that as i even used avengers shield to try to grab some from him, it still didn't work.


While I don't think 20K HPS is possible, part of your problem is that you are waiting for the Adds to come to you. I go to the adds then pull them to the ice patch, never had any issue with healer aggro at all this way. They don't even register on my Omen. I'm not even fully engaged on the adds in P3 cause we're not killing them. I just bring them to the ice then walk through to the other side, Holy Wrath them if its on CD when they reach the edge and strafe around to the far side.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby defeated » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:32 pm

I probably am mistaken about the 20k hps lol, but i know it was more hps than i've ever seen done.

That sounds like something that would have helped, i dunno i am just super bummed because i am the reason our guild didn't get the tribute run, much less heroic anub 10 down at all, even though i was only trying to follow orders. ><
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby WhatsOmen » Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:30 pm

What's Omen?

Greeting's I am the fire mage mentioned by the OP. I havn't pulled aggro from him unless the mob was ready to die by my hands. But on the other hand, I have been riding Defeated's ass in almost every fight.

(H)10 man Anub - While I understand the tank needs to make contact. I found Defeated was not coming out to pick up the mobs rather he was waiting for them to come to him then he taunted and Frisbee. I was told the ice slowed him and the mobs down. But doesn't blessing of freedom take care of that?. And isnt judgment a range attack now? Sorry im no prot pally, just adding 2 cents.

Shaman was at 7500HPS
Holy Preist at 3500HPS
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Pizbit » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:25 pm

Omen is a threat meter: http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addo ... meter.aspx

Personally I don't know how people raid without it. :)
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Florisia » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:10 am

This isn't very constructive, but I thought it'd be worth posting for the sake of teaching DPS that they should watch their threat levels.

Use the (Back)Hand of Salvation on them. Put some threatening /say or emote on it.

Code: Select all
/cast Hand of Salvation
/say Hey! Hey! Hey!  Cool it down, %t!


^Or some such nonsense.

Although I do have to say, for a healer to pull things off of you seems a little odd. I can understand a DPS going a little bonkers, but heal threat is low on its own, and most of the healing classes have some talent or another that reduces their overall healing threat. In the situations where I know a healer is more likely to grab something than I am initially(Rapid new add spawns while I'm down on health is a good example), I wait until they get close to the healer, pop HOP on the healer and do what I can with any caster adds. I'm pretty sure healers can heal just fine through HoP, it saves them from getting crushed, allows you to pick up any adds on them, minus some damage that might happen as a result of a caster hitting them through HoP. It doesn't solve your overall threat gen issue, but it atleast would help you be a better situational tank. :P
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Narsill » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:29 pm

Corpsicle wrote:I am still convinced there is a wonky threat bug that I just can't catch in action.


I have noticed this since they made RF a toggle rather than the 30 min timer, i think there is some sneaky little bug running around there that was overlooked before the patch went live.

I used to walk into a boss fight and within 5 seconds have whoever it was stuck to my face so the dps could go to work quicky every single time, now my threat gen is soso at best, one week i will be back on top of the meter by clear miles but then the next we can do the same boss and i start to get a sweat on as i see our mages and locks up my backside. I have fully explained to my guild about the problems i have been having and almost all of the full time raiders had agreed that something just isn't right. Luckily I play with a supportive lot and they instantly put more effort into their own aggro management so we could carry on raid near to normal.

Using SoV, crusade build 53/18 with 3/5 reck for the floats.

It has been a bit disheartning because It just makes you feel like your not doing your job properly. i am hoping with the change to 3.2.2 RF they might just find something and fix it, the drop to 80% and the TbtL changes are minor alone, but if this continues adding into this mystery is going to be a whole bucket of messy !
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Xanthir » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:19 pm

One way you could make sure it is working is to toggle it off and back on after a wipe. I realize this is counter intuitive to why it was changed in the first place, but it should fix it if there is indeed a glitch.

Also I doubt they have fixed it in this last patch as I don't remember reading anything about RF in the pally bug fixes, they almost certainly would have put something in there about it.

The only major time I have noticed potential for threat issues is against huge burst damage classes like some destro warlocks and one specific ret pally I know. This is probably a split problem between our minor threat nerf and the small amount of time it takes to get 5 SoV stacks on the mob. So realistically it is only a period of a few seconds where I have to worry about it, and if I can successfully get my normal pull strat off, it really isn't much of an issue, Wing+exorcism --> IMMEDIATE hand of reckoning (the reckoning hits before exorcism does if you are fast enough) --> Captain America Shield --> judgment (if I have time while the boss is running) --> SotR (while cons and HS are down from before the pull), then the normal rotation. After all that front loaded threat, I generally don't have too many problems while SoV is stacking.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Dynaeus » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:11 am

In my "avoidance" set that I use to tank ToC 25man(H), I have something silly like 84 hit (+1% for being a Draenei). No one ever pulls threat. I use the 969 rotation like a pro.

The key to makin' fantastic threat in ToC is speccin' into Crusade in the ret tree. They're all undead/demons in there, 'cept the beasts. Hell, even Algalon is an elemental, so if your guild is still workin on him, you're good to go ;).

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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby kanst » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:42 am

Recently I have been having some threat issues. Its not on every fight, and the worst in my opinion are Anub and the last guy on Beasts. When I am getting stunned/frozen intermittently it really hurts my threat. Also with my new gear my hit has dropped to around 180, I notice a huge threat dip whenever I miss a shield of righteousness. In Ulduar my threat was sitting around 8k spiking to 10k pretty often, now I sit closer to 6-7k spiking to 8k and I have noticed some dps getting close.

Also what do you guys do with pickups, it seems like my burst threat on the target sucks. I have lost an off tank a few times because he devastates a few times before I am fully into my 969 and he rips.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Dynaeus » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:05 pm

kanst wrote:Also what do you guys do with pickups, it seems like my burst threat on the target sucks.

I use a macro for all of my pick-ups:

/--use Potion of Wild Magic
/cast Hand of Reckoning
/cast Righteous Defense
/cast Avenging Wrath
/cast Avenger's Shield

It also doubles as my taunting macro, hence both taunts. I take the dashes out when I actually need to open with more threat.

If I can't target the mob until it pops, I have a second macro that's identical that I add a /target Acidmaw before all the taunting mumbo-jumbo. I drag that onto my bars next to my reg. macro before the pull (/target Mistress of Pain, etc, too)

I also leave it as a 5-line macro, not a one-liner-castsequence so that it'll try and use any of those abilities and not get stuck if one's not off of CD.
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Re: Sigh, i need threat issue help!

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:01 am

Defeated, do you normally run with a Disc Priest as your healer? Just a couple of nights ago, I could not push my TPS over 1.7K at icehowl (I am normally around 6K depending on my seals) -- reading the forums later on, I found out that there's a glitch with the glyphed PW:S that causes the priest to spellsteal from whomever is being protected by the Shield -- or it could be that the priests were putting Pain Surpression on you, like it was my case.

Priests ending with soul shards, conflagrates and in one ocassion... spellstealing a Bear's Savage Roar on whelps.

It just got hotfixed a couple of hours ago.
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